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Bootstrap 3 RC1

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Re: Bootstrap 3 RC1

#111

Post by Gormo »

davidw wrote: post #36

I love bootstrap, but I'm completely unconvinced about the flat trend. My site, www.liberwriter.com is squarely aimed at non-technical people who are not really on top of the latest trends. I could very easily envision them having a higher cognitive load trying to figure out what is a button and what isn't and so on. What do testing and studies show about this?

It seems like preferring a uniformly flat style is a more "non-technical" point of view; a more technically-oriented perspective would recognize the quasi-3D beveling of controls as a semantic cue indicating that those elements are functional controls meant to be interacted with, rather than static content.

Re: Bootstrap 3 RC1

#112

Post by scotth »

ryanSrich wrote: post #108
davidw wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it might not be much "hassle" in terms of adding some code, the part I appreciate most about bootstrap is that it's put together by competent designers and looks good as a whole. Once I start f'ing around with individual bits and pieces, my guess is that things are going to go to hell in a handbasket in short order, which sort of defeats the purpose of the whole thing in the first place. Also, my guess is that…

You should never rely on the styling for a public facing website. Sure, if you're building a side projects or perhaps even an MVP, go for it. However, if you're building a site to service a market, whether it be selling something, publishing something, etc. you should always go with a unique design. Bootstrap is great for having some underlying architecture but the visual styles should rarely be used. Keeping the ori…

Entirely unconvincing argument. Uniqueness of design isn't necessarily as important as you make it out to be. Most customers would not even notice.

Re: Bootstrap 3 RC1

#113

Post by pgsch »

The main problem I'm having with the bootstrap flat design is how to difference between button and (e.g.) labels/badges. In the previous version (2.x..) it was pretty clear for the user that a button was a button...

Re: Bootstrap 3 RC1

#114

Post by ereckers »

davidw wrote: post #36

I love bootstrap, but I'm completely unconvinced about the flat trend. My site, www.liberwriter.com is squarely aimed at non-technical people who are not really on top of the latest trends. I could very easily envision them having a higher cognitive load trying to figure out what is a button and what isn't and so on. What do testing and studies show about this?

The good news is that in two years you can be concerned about moving away from the rock solid accepted standard of flat design towards the next new "trend". Because you know, it works and people are familiar with it and why would anyone want to mess with that.

There was a time that some believed removing the underline from links was nothing but a design led trend and a move in the wrong direction. People figured it out, adjusted, and no site missed a beat.

Re: Bootstrap 3 RC1

#115

Post by jmduke »

joevandyk wrote: post #95
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #3

Cue a dozen comments about flat buttons. This looks like a nice set of changes for Bootstrap. I'm not sure how I feel about the grid class name changes, but then again, I went all-in on Foundation a few months back, so it doesn't affect me one way or another. I'm sure mdo and fat have excellent reasons for using Less instead of Sass, but I'm a Rails user and I like Sass better to boot. Anyway, no matter, I'm glad to…

Ugh, those aren't buttons. Those are text inside a rectangle. :( http://monosnap.com/image/Vc05ZRQmGTmRrYvTEbLaYAI6w.png -- those do not look interactive at all.

That's an opinion, not a fact. If I see a colored rectangle that's offset from the text with a label that indicates action[1], I immediately think its a button. I'm willing to wager a non-trivial amount of consumers do so as well, but this is what things like context and split testing are for.

[1] The trickiness with flat design is when buttons for action are also used as information display. One of the biggest issues with the first iteration of Metro was that you'd have a box that shows your current number of emails -- and you didn't know if that was just a part of your dashboard or also a link to your email that had a nice preview. That's not a failing of flat design, that's a failing of design.

Re: Bootstrap 3 RC1

#116

Post by ereckers »

I'm happy about the mobile first approach. Simple things like 100% button widths is great. This was a modification I had to make to every Bootstrap site I built. I like the idea of having a single CDN for it too. Nice work.

Oh, I owe it to the thread - flat buttons.

Re: Bootstrap 3 RC1

#117

Post by neovive »

taspeotis wrote: post #20
markdotto wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed there will be at least one more RC.

Hey mdo, big thanks for all your work! I've used Bootstrap in one project and will use it in many more. It's a huge productivity boon and the documentation does a great job of showing you what to do.

Especially when combined with companion services such as bootswatch and wrapbootstrap.

Re: Bootstrap 3 RC1

#118

Post by TylerE »

ricardobeat wrote: post #90
nileshtrivedi wrote: post #76

List of all cross-browser gotchas from the Bootstrap site: - Striped tables are styled via the :nth-child CSS selector, which is not available in IE8. - IE and Safari don't actually support the attribute on a - Avoid using elements here as they cannot be fully styled in WebKit browsers. - If you add the disabled attribute to a , Internet Explorer 9 and below will render text gray with a nasty text-shadow that we cann…

Bears repeting: IE8 is at < 8% global share, < 5% in many markets, and effectively 0% for any tech-related business. Google has dropped support almost a year ago. Mobile and Safari are way bigger concerns.

Careful now. If your user base is "normal" people it might be substantially more than that.

One site I run is a local news site (East Coast, USA) that does a fair amount of traffic (~10M pages, ~500k visitors monthly), and IE8 is still hovering around 13% for us, with IE7 at just over 2%. In fact, IE8 > IE9, by a fair margin. The good news is that IE share overall is down substantially.

Jul 2010: 74% Jul 2011: 65% Jul 2012: 58% Jul 2013: 34%

Re: Bootstrap 3 RC1

#119

Post by TylerE »

ChiperSoft wrote: post #87
untog wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I'm sure you well know, a mixing includes vendor specific prefixes. And the whole point of mixins is to make it easier to maintain. Once they're written, you don't need to worry.

Unless you're supporting Firefox 3.5 for some weird reason, you haven't needed vendor prefixes for almost two years.

Some of us do. On our intranet will have lots of people on PPC Macs.

Re: Bootstrap 3 RC1

#120

Post by ChiperSoft »

TylerE wrote: post #119
ChiperSoft wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're supporting Firefox 3.5 for some weird reason, you haven't needed vendor prefixes for almost two years.

Some of us do. On our intranet will have lots of people on PPC Macs.

Then you may be interested in this: http://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/
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