Live data from Hacker News

Google Engineer Wins NSA Award, Then Says NSA Should Be “Abolished”

tikkun.org

21–30 of 44 posts

Re: Google Engineer Wins NSA Award, Then Says NSA Should Be “Abolished”

#21
tikkun.org seems to be down. Here's the Google cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...

Here's the blog post from the Google Engineer (Joseph Bonneau) about accepting the award: http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2013/07/19/nsa-award-for-...

Re: Google Engineer Wins NSA Award, Then Says NSA Should Be “Abolished”

#22
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So have computers.

Point?

I was about to make the same point, that the list of things that have existed for 65 or fewer years includes a number of things I couldn't live without (e.g. my own existence, for one).

I agree that the NSA needs to stop wholesale data gathering and needs public transparency, but the age of the NSA is not a useful argument that we can live without it, since we can't live without other things that are younger.

Re: Google Engineer Wins NSA Award, Then Says NSA Should Be “Abolished”

#24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point?

I was about to make the same point, that the list of things that have existed for 65 or fewer years includes a number of things I couldn't live without (e.g. my own existence, for one). I agree that the NSA needs to stop wholesale data gathering and needs public transparency, but the age of the NSA is not a useful argument that we can live without it, since we can't live without other things that are younger.

Category error: the topic is the federal and state governments, not the age of things you personally require for existence.

Re: Google Engineer Wins NSA Award, Then Says NSA Should Be “Abolished”

#25
post #4

Is World War II so far away that everyone forgets how fucked up the entire world can become - and it doesn't take long for it all to go to hell either. The NSA has to get their shit together, but we still need real strategical/tactical intelligence inside and outside of the US. So when it does happen (and it will eventually happen) we're prepared not to lose our country, or even the world to the super nuclear powered…

A country starts a war, fundamentally, when they see a resource (land; oil; people) that they think they can claim without destroying its value in the process. However, all the technologies we've developed since WWII that make us more efficient at mass-killing (chemical/biological weapons et al) are politically-blind; Anthrax will infect the conqueror as much as the conquered. The only real advance we've made in the "things that will kill the enemy but leave you alone to sit in their houses and farm their land" field, in the last 70 years, are drones--and, tactically-speaking, they haven't increased the difficulty of war much for the side of the invaded, just made waging a war safer for the invader. So, it's not any easier to win a war against a nation at technological parity with your own than it was 70 years ago.

On the other hand, over the last 50 years, besides there having been built within every world-leader a strong awareness of the "final solution" (nukes) available to the major powers to put down any sufficient threat, a true global trade economy has also emerged, with strong economic interdependence between the major powers (China holding US debt &c). Every power is now just as much beholden, economically, to each other power, as if they were an export colony; the US going to war with China, for example, would be cutting off one's nose to spite one's face in the same way that Britain choosing, without provocation, to start warring with America in 1775 would have been. In this situation, I don't see much chance of a major power instigating an empire-building war.

Also, unlike in WWI, a country that isn't a major power doesn't have the political weight to instigate a major war--nobody will follow it into battle. Attacking a country in a union with a major power is implicitly attacking that power, and military strategists now treat it that way, instead of thinking they can "just" take the country. Instead, we merely see individual unallied states getting nasty to their unallied neighbors--free radicals bumping into one-another--and having to be calmed down by some third party. I would guess future "wars" all across the globe will look more like the US's dealings in Afghanistan/Iraq than it will like some sort of confrontation between NATO and some new Axis.

Another way to put it, is that national political borders across much of the globe have basically annealed down to a rest-state. The resignation to this fact is what seems to have spurred the EU into existence; if you can't invade your neighbor any more, you may as well cooperate and trade. I see this sort of idea spreading (though perhaps without the shared monetary policy aspect, which doesn't seem to be working out too well) as more regions of the world "settle", leaving basically four or five pretty-similar political bodies in a de-facto world-government union, and individual break-away states here or there which are filled up with "peacekeeping forces" by the one or another of the powers.

I think this logic is pretty common to people who don't have a dystopian view of the future. Do you see some major flaw in it?

Re: Google Engineer Wins NSA Award, Then Says NSA Should Be “Abolished”

#26
post #4

Is World War II so far away that everyone forgets how fucked up the entire world can become - and it doesn't take long for it all to go to hell either. The NSA has to get their shit together, but we still need real strategical/tactical intelligence inside and outside of the US. So when it does happen (and it will eventually happen) we're prepared not to lose our country, or even the world to the super nuclear powered…

It'd be more to the point to remember that we survived the cold war, an era where good intelligence was even more necessary and the dangers to the country were bigger and more immediate, with tighter controls on what intelligence services could do.

Did we have tighter controls, or were they just better at keeping their work out of the news?

Re: Google Engineer Wins NSA Award, Then Says NSA Should Be “Abolished”

#27
This is silly coming from a company whose trusted computing base was nearly eaten by China. If any company needs the tightest possible OODA loop w.r.t. cyber-threats, it is Google.

There has been a lot of utter horseshit about how the NSA's activities will make Europeans distrust American cloud computing. Well the NSA is nothing compared to the Communist Party espionage organizations.

Re: Google Engineer Wins NSA Award, Then Says NSA Should Be “Abolished”

#28
post #4

Is World War II so far away that everyone forgets how fucked up the entire world can become - and it doesn't take long for it all to go to hell either. The NSA has to get their shit together, but we still need real strategical/tactical intelligence inside and outside of the US. So when it does happen (and it will eventually happen) we're prepared not to lose our country, or even the world to the super nuclear powered…

> So when it does happen (and it will eventually happen) we're prepared not to lose our country

If it does happen, most likely it will be caused by the US itself. Many threats that exist today are largely created by the US short-sighted foreign policy or even worse - blatant disregard for any nation, but themselves.

Re: Google Engineer Wins NSA Award, Then Says NSA Should Be “Abolished”

#29
post #3

How do you abolish something that the entirety of the federal and state governments rely upon? Intelligence resources are being pooled to the NSA, and cyber-intelligence reports are being sourced wholly from the NSA. They're the single most powerful intelligence agency in the US, and there's absolutely no sign of it slowing down. If there's anything that Obama shall be remembered for, it's that under his administrati…

In hindsight, it's probably telling that Obama said he was heavily inspired by Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln vastly consolidated federal power during his presidency, and had some dubious issues with the Constitution as well.

I think you're reading too much into that choice. I believe he chose Lincoln the same reason that Romney said that "Modern Family" is his favorite T.V. show: They both rank #1 in polls.

Re: Google Engineer Wins NSA Award, Then Says NSA Should Be “Abolished”

#30
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So have computers.

Point?

Don't be obtuse. Part of what makes the NSA powerful is its vast data-processing capacity. If it was just a bunch of spooks with shortwave radios and shorthand pads you wouldn't think twice about it.
Post reply on HN