50% of South Korean biology teachers do not accept evolution • Hacker News Board

Re: 50% of South Korean biology teachers do not accept evolution

#61

Post by boneheadmed » Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 3:49 PM UTC

Tichy wrote: post #52

boneheadmed wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Three evolutionary scientists are interviewed and are asked to give examples of directly observable evidence of macroevolution.

Have you observed god creating a new species?

God created everything in existence. We refuse to acknowledge it, because by doing so we have to come to terms with his moral law. This moral law is embedded in our conscience and becomes clear through an examination of the conscience. For example things like lying and stealing (which if we are honest most of us have done either or both at one time or another), become heavy burdens when examined in the light of our consciences. In denying God, we can deny our own conscience and then create our own morality.

Re: 50% of South Korean biology teachers do not accept evolution

#62

Post by alexk7 » Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 3:50 PM UTC

boneheadmed wrote: post #25

Evolution can be further classified into "microevolution" and "macroevolution". Evidence for microevolution is directly observable (e.g. bacteria adapting to changes of nutrients in their environment, viruses adapting to vaccines). However macroevolution has never been directly observed. It is extrapolated from considering what occurs after a multitude of generations of microevolution. An interesting new documentary…

What you call "microevolution" is simply adaptation. It has nothing to do with evolution (that you call "macroevolution"). Evolution is the logical outcome of random mutations over a long period of time:

1) Random mutations

2) Survival rate increases for some

3) Evolution

This is so simple and so beautiful at the same time. The only thing you can contest is the existence of random mutations. I think the incredible diversity in our own species is enough proof.

Re: 50% of South Korean biology teachers do not accept evolution

#63

Post by rdouble » Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 3:50 PM UTC

boneheadmed wrote: post #61

Tichy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you observed god creating a new species?

God created everything in existence. We refuse to acknowledge it, because by doing so we have to come to terms with his moral law. This moral law is embedded in our conscience and becomes clear through an examination of the conscience. For example things like lying and stealing (which if we are honest most of us have done either or both at one time or another), become heavy burdens when examined in the light of our c…

Is this really the direction this website is headed? The NSA conspiracy stuff was bad enough.

Re: 50% of South Korean biology teachers do not accept evolution

#64

Post by boneheadmed » Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 3:51 PM UTC

justinpombrio wrote: post #60

boneheadmed wrote: post #25

Evolution can be further classified into "microevolution" and "macroevolution". Evidence for microevolution is directly observable (e.g. bacteria adapting to changes of nutrients in their environment, viruses adapting to vaccines). However macroevolution has never been directly observed. It is extrapolated from considering what occurs after a multitude of generations of microevolution. An interesting new documentary…

No, but we have found millions of fossils in the ground from different time periods, and it looks an awful lot like different species slowly changed over time (and occasionally branched off or went extinct). If this weren't the case, scientists wouldn't believe in macroevolution either.

The appearance of things does not make it so. Automobiles appear to be evolved from earlier forms. And they have in sense: in the minds of their creators. So too, animal and plant species appear to be directly related to other prior species populations. But the connection is only in the mind of the Creator.

Re: 50% of South Korean biology teachers do not accept evolution

#65

Post by inkaudio » Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 3:52 PM UTC

AlisdairO wrote: post #36

inkaudio wrote: post #17

I love science & technology therefore I'm alarmed because so many scientist and technologist don't see the inherit paradox in evolution. Natural selection makes it virtually impossible for animals to adapt via the proposed mutations. Natural selection happens immediately, valuable life preserving mutations are suppose occur (typically) over thousands of years. To illustrate Arctic terns are dying because they are not…

What's to say that species will adapt all the time? It could be that terns won't be able to adapt fast enough, and will die. There's die-offs of individual species all the time, and historically there's been several major multi-species die-offs when conditions have changed too rapidly. Mutations don't have to occur at the point of their necessity. Mutations that survive can be survivorship-neutral (or nearly so), but…

Don't underestimate natural selection. Animals need essential traits to survive at birth. Now consider that most animals are specialized to their environment, how did they get to that point ? What did an Eagle do before it eyes became specialized for air to ground hunting ? How did it survive before it can fly ? How did these animals survive is these environment during their evolution ? That's the paradox, natural selection works too well for evolution by gradual mutation to work.

Re: 50% of South Korean biology teachers do not accept evolution

#66

Post by pdeuchler » Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 3:59 PM UTC

harrytuttle wrote: post #10

We should exclude such people from educational institutes by nature of belief. They're not teaching science if they already have an agenda, bias or belief and allow it to interfere with objectivity and professionalism. In fact any religious school or education institute should be of independent of religion how the church and state supposedly are. This shit is unfortunately rife. I had to explain this to my daughter's…

It seems HN is just as prone to pulling out the "Save The Kids" rhetoric when it suits them.

I wonder why you aren't lauding the NSA surveillance program, as it gives you exactly the kind of ammunition to perform such thought police style discrimination.

You will never agree with everyone. The solution is never to "exclude" or "ban" a school of thought, but counteract it with logic and reason. I see no harm in teaching both sides of human origin, it gives children the chance to decide for themselves, and also offers parents a wonderful opportunity to explain their own beliefs while rebutting any they don't agree with.

If a teacher is not teaching evolution perhaps they aren't performing their job correctly, as opposed to being an insidious agent that must be removed due to their crimethink. I hope you can see the difference between job performance and belief systems.

Re: 50% of South Korean biology teachers do not accept evolution

#67

Post by i_got_created » Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 3:59 PM UTC

alayne wrote: post #33

i_got_created wrote: post #21

Evolutionists should know other theories as well, or do they fear them? http://www.evolution-is-degeneration.com/

A book about evolution ... by a televangelist.

Are religious persons not allowed to be intelligent? I studied this book carefully; it's one of the most interesting and intelligent things I ever read in whole of my life time.

Reading books about evolution may be interesting, but to me it's like dreaming impossible dreams (science fiction comes to mind).

Re: 50% of South Korean biology teachers do not accept evolution

#68

Post by inkaudio » Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 4:01 PM UTC

prawn wrote: post #46

inkaudio wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, survival for most animals are always based on their immediate ability to adapt, not the ability to adapt over thousands of years, that is the paradox of evolution. Animals supposedly evolved to have these specialized features essential for survival over thousands of years, but natural selection is in conflict. Animals need to survive their conditions immediately, they can't wait for their bodies to evolve.

I don't think you understand how it works. It's not about animals adapting to survive, but the survival of those best equipped. Not everything survives. Imagine there's a life and death surprise test on evolution. Demonstrate knowledge and you live. Fail to do so and you die. Part of the population already has a reasonable understanding of it. Others don't. You're looking at it from the perspective of the less knowle…

Yes, those best equipped ! But how do you get it equipped ? That's the issue. Yes, not everything survives. But those that survive have all the specialized equipment needed to survive because ?

Re: 50% of South Korean biology teachers do not accept evolution

#69

Post by Tichy » Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 4:01 PM UTC

pdeuchler wrote: post #66

harrytuttle wrote: post #10

We should exclude such people from educational institutes by nature of belief. They're not teaching science if they already have an agenda, bias or belief and allow it to interfere with objectivity and professionalism. In fact any religious school or education institute should be of independent of religion how the church and state supposedly are. This shit is unfortunately rife. I had to explain this to my daughter's…

It seems HN is just as prone to pulling out the "Save The Kids" rhetoric when it suits them. I wonder why you aren't lauding the NSA surveillance program, as it gives you exactly the kind of ammunition to perform such thought police style discrimination. You will never agree with everyone. The solution is never to "exclude" or "ban" a school of thought, but counteract it with logic and reason. I see no harm in teachi…

Except this isn't about beliefs and opinions, but about science. You can question evolution with the scientific method if you want to.

And "save the kids" seems a bit more applicable when applied to teachers who are paid to educate said kids.

Re: 50% of South Korean biology teachers do not accept evolution

#70

Post by prawn » Sat, Jul 27, 2013, 4:01 PM UTC

kjackson2012 wrote: post #40

salgernon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations, you are front row center to a mass extinction event. There was not time for the dinosaurs to react to the meteor either.

The theory that dinosaurs died due to a meteor is already outdated.

Is it? Are you being pedantic about the term "meteor" or is consensus behind something other than a collision? Asking honestly and aware that Wikipedia isn't always going to be correct. From Wikipedia:

"It is generally believed that the K-Pg extinction was triggered by a massive comet/asteroid impact and its catastrophic effects on the global environment, including a lingering impact winter..."

Same page then suggests volcanic activity, etc is a less popular theory.