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UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

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Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#141

Post by sneak »

jivatmanx wrote: post #100
InclinedPlane wrote: post #23

This deserves a lot more of a response but for now I'll just leave this: Liberty is about the ability of the individual to do things that others disapprove of. You don't need liberty if everyone else approves of your actions. As a corollary, the exercise of liberty does not require a justification, because it's a liberty, practicality or "usefulness" or what-have-you play no part in it. It's onerous to require someon…

>People often dismiss out of hand the notion that tyranny could possibly take hold over the first world democracies of the west in the 21st century I think that the two most famous tyrannies, the Nazis and the USSR, have given us a very narrow impression of how tyranny can take hold. We think, as long as there isn't a charismatic Hitler/Lenin figure agitating for revolution and preaching a radical ideology, that we'r…

> We think, as long as there isn't a charismatic Hitler/Lenin figure agitating for revolution and preaching a radical ideology, that we're safe.

It's a good thing the US doesn't have a widely-beloved charismatic leader sending us running down the slippery slope, then.

Oh, wait.

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#142

Post by drdaeman »

hfsktr wrote: post #134
Karunamon wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the fact that only a minority will actually opt in. Requiring positive action almost ensures that miniscule amounts of people will change from the default. (defaultsetting_users) > (nondefaultsetting_users) ..regardless of how desirable the non default setting is. This, for instance, is why Windows Update got a lot more forceful in its later incarnations. People will not update, even when it's good for them,…

Another example: IE being installed on Windows by default. How many people still think IE == internet...

Way too many.

I work as an engineer in a small ISP compaly, and for some time had very closely contacted with phone support (sometimes helping them) and heard many conversations with clients.

I'd say there are quite a few people who can't distinguish between Internet, browser and VKontakte (Russian analog for Facebook). Didn't counted them or did any real statistics, though.

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#143

Post by GhotiFish »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #112
x0054 wrote: post #93

In my previous line of work, as a criminal lawyer, this is how this would be used: Q: "Mr Smith, isn't it true that you willingly removed a filter on you Internet connection, places there for your safety, and the safety of your children, and now your connection allows you to watch hard core porn?" A: "But... I did it because.." Q: "Yes or no, Mr. Smith? Did you ask for the filters to be removed?" A: "Yes, bu..." Q: T…

>placed there for your safety "No" If the lawyer wants to be an ass then he can enjoy some excessively pedantic replies.

not sure how that would go down. It's funny though

"Placed there for my safety? Why would I remove a filter placed there for my safety? He must be referring to some other filter."

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#144

Post by markbao »

luminiferous wrote: post #110
anonymous wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any source for this? Google shows nothing and Duck Duck Go only points me to a reddit thread with that exact same comment and no source. I mean just about the specific case, I know that the Tiananmen square incident is unknown to almost all Chinese.

The source is the reddit comment. It was a reply to an askreddit thread.

Indeed. It's anecdotal, but given the 1.3 billion people in China, I'm inclined to believe that this isn't a one-time case.

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#146

Post by markbao »

tomhschmidt wrote: post #87
markbao wrote: post #65

The terrifying reality of censorship, as told through the lens of that of China: "I knew of some Chinese migrants to Australia who watched a Tiananmen 10-year anniversary documentary, and apparently tears just streamed down their faces. They had no clue that it ever happened ."

Uhhh maybe they came from a Tier 3 city or something. Most Chinese I have talked to know about Tiananmen

It was a crazy thought for me, too, but something to also consider is that there's some selection bias in the Chinese that you might talk to (i.e. Chinese people that talk to foreigners regularly) vs. ones that don't; the ones that do probably tend to know more, whereas the ones that don't probably fall into the "never heard of Tiananmen" category.

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#147

Post by zaroth »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #23

This deserves a lot more of a response but for now I'll just leave this: Liberty is about the ability of the individual to do things that others disapprove of. You don't need liberty if everyone else approves of your actions. As a corollary, the exercise of liberty does not require a justification, because it's a liberty, practicality or "usefulness" or what-have-you play no part in it. It's onerous to require someon…

And privacy being liberty's right hand, this is particularly frightening:

"Whether Huawei is linked to the government or not (they insist not), it’s hardly encouraging to discover that even when TalkTalk subscribers turn filtering completely off, their traffic is still routed through Huawei’s system."

Who needs PRISM when ISPs will just proxy all our network traffic through the Great Firewall!

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#148

Post by steveklabnik »

josh2600 wrote: post #103
InclinedPlane wrote: post #23

This deserves a lot more of a response but for now I'll just leave this: Liberty is about the ability of the individual to do things that others disapprove of. You don't need liberty if everyone else approves of your actions. As a corollary, the exercise of liberty does not require a justification, because it's a liberty, practicality or "usefulness" or what-have-you play no part in it. It's onerous to require someon…

You make a number of excellent points, but the distinction you're drawing is actually more broad than just justification of liberty. Anytime one makes a differentiation between two things, beauty and ugliness, skill and stupidity, light and dark, one is making a value judgement. The act of segregation, in and of itself, implies evaluation, weighing and judgement. I believe that prejudgement (or prejudice) is antithet…

> The act of segregation, in and of itself, implies evaluation, weighing and judgement.

One of my favorite quotes:

  > when you don't create things, you become defined by your 
  > tastes rather than ability. your tastes only narrow & 
  > exclude people. so create. 
  >  
  > - _why the lucky stiff

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#149

Post by ElliotH »

majke wrote: post #12

I tried to look it up, but UK's law is still a mystery for me. Can someone help: what is a definition of ISP in the UK? Especially: is a VPN provider an ISP? Additionally, what definition of ISP is used in Mr Cameron's proposal?

The reason you're struggling is there has been no bill published yet. I'm fairly sure this is mostly political bluster, it'll be hard to know exactly what is required until they actually publish something real.

Re: UK Porn Filter Will Censor Other Content Too, ISPs Reveal

#150

Post by ElliotH »

stusmith1977 wrote: post #29
triangle wrote: post #18

If you live in the UK, please consider signing the petition to stop the filters: https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/51746 . At the moment, it's sadly languishing at a mere 21,000 signatures. If it reaches 100,000 then that should trigger a parliamentary debate. I'm also going to send an email to my local MP. Does anyone have any other ideas for fighting this censorship?

The press could mention it, that would be a start. BBC news for instance barely mentioned the proposed blocking. The only stories to hit the front page (and then, right at the bottom in the Tech section) were the links to Huawei and the spat between the minister and the reporter. The actual proposed block has barely been mentioned. Apparently a baby being born warrants continuous headline coverage; loss of civil libe…

Was a cleverly chosen publication day to be honest. I wouldn't be surprised if there's other bad news that we haven't even heard about that was completely blanked off the news by baby discussion.
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