Live data from Hacker News

Prim (YC S13) Does Your Laundry. Pickup, Wash, Fold, Delivery, Awesome

techcrunch.com

101–110 of 216 posts

Re: Prim (YC S13) Does Your Laundry. Pickup, Wash, Fold, Delivery, Awesome

#101
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole concept crystalizes what I never liked about living in big cities. The tiny apartments with no amenities and the endless expenses to get basic stuff done. My scenario, since I own a house with a washer and dryer: It's 5PM, I realize I need clean clothes for the next day. I spend 2 minutes gathering them up and putting them in the washer, then go back to my beer, or whatever else I'm working on. An hour late…

It may surprise you to learn that people in cities were able to get laundry done before Prim started. Also, it costs me about $2.50 to do a load of laundry (washer + dryer), which is basically what it costs you (see: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/laundry.html ). And it's in my building. So I'm not sure which concept crystalizes this notion for you, but it's not one based in reality.

"I'm not sure which concept crystalizes this notion for you"

Because the parent commenter implied it takes an hour of full time work to do laundry, which implies having to go to a laundromat.

But yeah, plenty of apartments in cities have washer/dryers.

Re: Prim (YC S13) Does Your Laundry. Pickup, Wash, Fold, Delivery, Awesome

#102
post #55

Yet another startup that caters to the 20 something tech crowd with too much disposable income and too little free time on their hands. Do people in Silicon Valley ever leave spend time outside Silicon Valley?

These founders merely did what I advise every startup to do, build something for which they are initial market. So essentially you're complaining that the founders are members of the demographic group that they are. But that seems unfair; they can't help that.

Instructing founders to build products based on themselves as the initial market sounds like good advice, but it worries me slightly that if this advice were taken universally in tech circles, we would innovate in a fairly egocentric direction. Then again, I agree that people work better on problems that they're intimately familiar with, so I don't know if there's a good way around this.

Re: Prim (YC S13) Does Your Laundry. Pickup, Wash, Fold, Delivery, Awesome

#103
post #28
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Well maybe once everything in our country is automated, we'll have time to worry about others' automation, digital divide, and poverty."

Having just Googled that quote, I'm going to assume it was meant to be a paraphrasing of my comment/a (sarcastic?) response to it, rather than an actual quote. In any case, I didn't really mean other countries in my comment. There is a great deal of crime, starvation, poverty, and disease in this country. "Charity starts at home."

The last time there was widespread starvation North America was in Newfoundland during the Great Depression.

Re: Prim (YC S13) Does Your Laundry. Pickup, Wash, Fold, Delivery, Awesome

#104
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

entrepreneurs look for problems with money in mind. philanthropists look for money with problems in mind.

I really like that. As rising high school senior, I often struggle with this -- the question of whether to get rich any way I can and then make my mark on the world (a la Bill Gates), or whether I should strive for my money-making to also be genuinely (in my opinion/worldview) beneficial for mankind.

You should look into Effective Altruism, Earning to Give and 80,000 Hours.

Re: Prim (YC S13) Does Your Laundry. Pickup, Wash, Fold, Delivery, Awesome

#105
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it'll make money since it's exploiting the lazy. The folding is a nice touch, but it's essentially useless since it puts unwanted creases and wrinkles in clothes. They aren't following tag instructions, either. Based on this, here are the steps that are actually useful: 1. Separate white clothing from non-white clothing. 2. Place white clothing in washer and add soap. 3. Place white clothing in dryer. 4. Pla…

Let's say I'm an entry-level freelancer who bills out at $100/hr. It's 5PM on a Wednesday. I need to do the laundry because I have a client meeting tomorrow and they usually look at me funny when I wear crumpled tee shirts that smell kinda funky. I could do one of two things: 1. Work for an hour, generating $100, and spend 20% of that getting someone else to do my laundry. (Plus, I get to drink beer when I'm working…

It's 5PM on a Wednesday. You need to do the laundry because you have a client meeting tomorrow, but you decide to use Prim. They have an average return time of one day, so you end up going to the client meeting naked, since they didn't get your clothes back in time.

Re: Prim (YC S13) Does Your Laundry. Pickup, Wash, Fold, Delivery, Awesome

#106
I keep thinking that logistics is THE issue here. I understand all the comments criticizing the idea, but the idea is awesome! Who would not say otherwise? Pick up laundry? Amazing! I want it now!

But the question is on the margins and prices. Sending a truck around is no joke and it costs money. You clearly see it because Prim drops USD 10 after the first bag. That is huge (40% discount guys).

How would I go about this? Create a scheduling service. Tell people their price drops if they find other people in the neighborhood. Tell them you make it cheaper if they schedule a day of the week. Reduce the requirement. 1 bag is big for a single person, but maybe half bag no, and what about if you say, ok, if you find another half bag 0.5 km from you we come anyway?

Look at this 2 dimensions: price and quantity. You can reduce price, you can reduce quantity (the half bag), you can reduce both. Then apply these 2 dimensions to a group purchasing model. You get benefits all over the place: incentive for customers to invite other customers, no risk in running on negative margins and better deals with the laundries.

You really can play a lot with this once you look at the real aspect of the problem, which is logistics. I would love to hear your comments on this guys, this is an issue many similar start ups face.

Re: Prim (YC S13) Does Your Laundry. Pickup, Wash, Fold, Delivery, Awesome

#107

Yet another startup that caters to the 20 something tech crowd with too much disposable income and too little free time on their hands. Do people in Silicon Valley ever leave spend time outside Silicon Valley?

Mark What world changing startup have you built?

Its really unfair to for anyone on the sidelines to criticize the man in the arena.

Be the change you want to see in the world: if you feel they are solving the wrong problems, go solve the right ones.

Re: Prim (YC S13) Does Your Laundry. Pickup, Wash, Fold, Delivery, Awesome

#108
post #54

Next, we'll see the return of the milk man and we'll almost be in time for living just like exactly a century ago. These are not fresh, new ideas.

Most good ideas have precedents. The iPad was not the first tablet by a long shot. Nor was Dropbox the first service to offer syncing and backup. The difference, as here, was in subtle implementation details. But, as here, a small difference in implementation multiplied by a basic human need = great value to users.

Thanks for the comment, pg.

Yes, most good ideas have precedents. I think the value of iPads and Dropbox can be assessed with qualitative and quantitative analysis in meaningful ways. With Prim, however, the subtle details belie a more problematic relationships with users and workers.

Back of the envelope calculations (sorta):

Let's say I have 4 loads of laundry per week--colors, whites, towels, sheets & blanket/comforter. A low-end top-loading washing machine and dryer cost $400 each, new. So, in 12 weeks Prim has cost me more than buying a washing machine already. Average national price from a quick search at the EPA puts water cost at $2/1000 gallons; power is about $0.10/kWh. The cost-per-load at home runs users about $0.76, or $160/yr.

Given that a washer and dryer might run me around $800 (excluding tax) for low-end options, we're looking at around 525 loads to recoup the machine cost, or 131 weeks of laundry (2.5 yrs). In those 131 weeks, we've recouped the machine expense and spent an additional $400 in laundry costs. So, we're $1200 invested into doing our own laundry at home.

Average pricing at laundromats indicate that doing 4 loads will cost me less than the price of an additional load with Prim, or about the price of that additional load when including gas to get to the laundromat if I'm driving myself (which adds maybe $1-2 per week). In those 131 weeks, we're out about $1,965 (using the Prim extra load cost as our expected laundromat cost for 4 loads per week).

Cost with Prim over those 131 weeks? $9,170. $7,970 more than doing laundry at home with a machine the user owns and can take anywhere that allows them their own machine. Or $7,205 more than relying on a laundromat if one doesn't have such a residence.

I can think of a lot of things a user can do with $7-8K that can have a qualitative impact on each user's life. That's no small chunk of change. As another commenter remarked, Prim is betting entirely on users spending (hopefully) disposable income in a way that is of dubious personal and social utility.

Outsourcing such mundane chores for the sake of profit exacts an unbalanced price--users are losing a significant amount of money for which they receive no quantifiable return, and those employed to do their chores are left with mundane work that (hopefully) provides a subsistent standard of living. It is the commodification of chores by questionable assignment of non-deterministic values for which users and workers alike are paying an unreasonably high price.

I'd be very interested in understanding the metrics by which 'great value to users' is assessed and determined by YC, as I recognize this is merely a cash assessment. Moreover, I'd be really interested in determinations of value that incorporate some notion of improving society and people's lives in a qualitative way that isn't solely reliant upon subjective measurements of convenience and relying on statements about how much productivity is lost when doing laundry--which is highly dependent upon a dubious and dismissible premise that laundry is done during typical productive/working hours.

Obviously, if users want to throw $7-8K away on having someone do their laundry for them, and someone stands up to take that money, they're going to do it. But assigning increased convenience by offloading a mundane chore onto another human, who is getting far less out of the deal, as 'great value to the user' feels very wrong.

Moreover, the business costs seem to far outweigh the revenue potential. Assuming that a Prim employee is making minimum wage, it will take about 4 users with 4 loads of laundry per week to pay his/her salary. Or, if it's users who only need a load per week, that's about 12 single-load pickups. I presume Prim covers vehicle/gas costs to make these pickups, or are Prim employees showing up to people's residences (and, gasp, possibly having a key!) with their own vehicles, thus forcing employees to shoulder the transportation costs? If, as a user, I was having Prim do my laundry, the revenue of my 4 loads per week for 2.5 years would only cover about 28 weeks of salary at minimum wage. To stick around for the 2.5 years I need them compared to doing it myself, the employee costs is going to be just shy of $40K, and that doesn't include all the other business expenses. Just to pay one employee, Prim needs about 540 users doing 4 loads per week for 2.5 years, and I'm pretty sure that person is going to be unable to make all the pickups, much less complete all that laundry. Are there really that many people out there who want to overpay a company to complete a chore they can do in their free, non-productive time, to make Prim a viable business?

Disclaimer1: I have laundry running in the background while I'm writing comments on HN. Disclaimer2: I am idealistic. Disclaimer3: You're smarter than I am, undoubtedly know all of this, and are privy to information I am not. Thanks if you read this far. :)

Re: Prim (YC S13) Does Your Laundry. Pickup, Wash, Fold, Delivery, Awesome

#109
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole concept crystalizes what I never liked about living in big cities. The tiny apartments with no amenities and the endless expenses to get basic stuff done. My scenario, since I own a house with a washer and dryer: It's 5PM, I realize I need clean clothes for the next day. I spend 2 minutes gathering them up and putting them in the washer, then go back to my beer, or whatever else I'm working on. An hour late…

It may surprise you to learn that people in cities were able to get laundry done before Prim started. Also, it costs me about $2.50 to do a load of laundry (washer + dryer), which is basically what it costs you (see: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/laundry.html ). And it's in my building. So I'm not sure which concept crystalizes this notion for you, but it's not one based in reality.

Using national averages for electricity and water, it only costs $0.76 to complete a load of laundry (washing & drying).

Re: Prim (YC S13) Does Your Laundry. Pickup, Wash, Fold, Delivery, Awesome

#110
post #94
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say I'm an entry-level freelancer who bills out at $100/hr. It's 5PM on a Wednesday. I need to do the laundry because I have a client meeting tomorrow and they usually look at me funny when I wear crumpled tee shirts that smell kinda funky. I could do one of two things: 1. Work for an hour, generating $100, and spend 20% of that getting someone else to do my laundry. (Plus, I get to drink beer when I'm working…

The whole concept crystalizes what I never liked about living in big cities. The tiny apartments with no amenities and the endless expenses to get basic stuff done. My scenario, since I own a house with a washer and dryer: It's 5PM, I realize I need clean clothes for the next day. I spend 2 minutes gathering them up and putting them in the washer, then go back to my beer, or whatever else I'm working on. An hour late…

There are actually some nice 2L washers, which you don't even need to install, just plug in. jmduke might prefer the laundromat, but it's not needed even if you live in a big city.
Post reply on HN