Google will pay for free wireless in S.F. parks • Hacker News Board

Re: Google will pay for free wireless in S.F. parks

#21

Post by rhubarbquid » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 11:28 PM UTC

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

I know there is a lot of negativity around big companies like Google doing "free" things like this. There is even mis-trust over a sense of unease at the notion of "there is no such thing as a free lunch." These feelings are totally valid, and they unfortunately can prevent the rest of the community from acquiring a valuable resource. Free wifi in San Francisco (One of the techiest cities in the world) feels like a "…

It seems most likely the motivation here is to make sure all of the Googlers in SF are able to be online and thus able to work from more places. Many of Google's benefits are about making sure employees never have to stop working...

Re: Google will pay for free wireless in S.F. parks

#22

Post by rhubarbquid » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 11:30 PM UTC

sbashyal wrote: post #20

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

I know there is a lot of negativity around big companies like Google doing "free" things like this. There is even mis-trust over a sense of unease at the notion of "there is no such thing as a free lunch." These feelings are totally valid, and they unfortunately can prevent the rest of the community from acquiring a valuable resource. Free wifi in San Francisco (One of the techiest cities in the world) feels like a "…

many many Googlers feel VERY STRONGLY about not doing creepy/immoral things like that Many Googlers != All Googlers != Google How would you explain this? http://mashable.com/2012/02/17/google-caught-tracking-safari...

or this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jul/09/google-cli...

Re: Google will pay for free wireless in S.F. parks

#23

Post by rhubarbquid » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 11:31 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #12

freeasinfree wrote: post #11

Google Wifi in Mountain View is horrible, I can't imagine this will be much better. 2.4GHz is always a shit-show in any major city. 5GHz is an option, but not nearly as many mobiles have it, and the available channels on each device vary wildly. Plus that would start creating noise for a certain WISP I have a fondness for and don't want to see them affected.

I've never actually successfully connected to it on Castro Street, although I only ever tried inside buildings. I thought it had been disabled or something, I didn't realize it was just like that normally. :(

You need a "WiFi modem" to use it effectively inside a building.

Re: Google will pay for free wireless in S.F. parks

#24

Post by rdl » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 11:34 PM UTC

rhubarbquid wrote: post #23

rdl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never actually successfully connected to it on Castro Street, although I only ever tried inside buildings. I thought it had been disabled or something, I didn't realize it was just like that normally. :(

You need a "WiFi modem" to use it effectively inside a building.

Do you mean an external antenna with higher gain, and/or an outdoor antenna and internal repeater?

Re: Google will pay for free wireless in S.F. parks

#25

Post by cromwellian » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 11:57 PM UTC

tannerc wrote: post #15

cromwellian wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Google, $600k is a rounding error. It's the cost of one engineer. Even if somehow spending $600k could net a 10x return, it would still be relatively pointless. Remember, Google routinely kills off working products that bring in far more revenue and collect far more data. Google would have collected far more data from Reader alone. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and a charitable act is a charitable act. If you…

Just did the math (based on 2012 revenue and reported # of employees), and yup, $600k is what Google could easily afford for a single employee (with a good $400k left over for business expenses, per employee). That's amazing.

It's not a tight bound, I used a general rule of thumb that a fully loaded employee is 2x their base compensation. A good google engineer can easily earn $200+k per year in salary + bonus + stock. Obviously the 2x rule of thumb doesn't scale as health care, insurance, and other costs don't scale up, but I'd estimate that given the perks at Google, there's at least another $50-100k overhead. So realistically, it's probably 2 seasoned engineers, or 2 seasoned engineers plus a fresh graduate.

Re: Google will pay for free wireless in S.F. parks

#26

Post by justinpombrio » Fri, Jul 26, 2013, 12:00 AM UTC

sbashyal wrote: post #20

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

I know there is a lot of negativity around big companies like Google doing "free" things like this. There is even mis-trust over a sense of unease at the notion of "there is no such thing as a free lunch." These feelings are totally valid, and they unfortunately can prevent the rest of the community from acquiring a valuable resource. Free wifi in San Francisco (One of the techiest cities in the world) feels like a "…

many many Googlers feel VERY STRONGLY about not doing creepy/immoral things like that Many Googlers != All Googlers != Google How would you explain this? http://mashable.com/2012/02/17/google-caught-tracking-safari...

Reading that article and the follow up[1], it looks like Google made use of a quirk in Safari to give third-party cookies that would otherwise be blocked. No other major browser blocked third party cookies in this way, so the workaround just made Safari act like, e.g., Firefox. The quirk was relatively well-known, used by other advertisers and "like" buttons and such, and the article says that "Facebook even encourages developers to exploit the same Safari quirk Google targeted here.".

Google then: * Acknowledged the problem and apologized * Stated that the workaround was meant to be used for their "+1" buttons and such, but not for advertisements * Stopped giving out these cookies for advertisements on Safari * Was sued by the FCC for $22 million * Is now being sued by consumers on nebulous grounds

If you accept the claim that it was an accident to begin with, I don't see that Google did anything wrong.

[1] http://mashable.com/2013/01/25/google-safari-tracking-lawsui...

Re: Google will pay for free wireless in S.F. parks

#27

Post by mwsherman » Fri, Jul 26, 2013, 12:13 AM UTC

When is the last time anyone here has connected successfully to outdoor wifi? Here in NY, I try it all the time in the parks that offer it, without success.

(I haven’t tried Google’s wifi near their office in Chelsea, maybe it’s better.)

Wifi seems consistently to be a poor choice for large, uncontrolled spaces. If anyone can make it work through sheer engineering will, it’s Google, but the evidence thus far is that it is a misapplication of technology.

LTE et al do a much better job of it, because they are engineered for such environments. Why do we keep pinning our hopes on wifi?

Re: Google will pay for free wireless in S.F. parks

#28

Post by naner » Fri, Jul 26, 2013, 12:19 AM UTC

mwsherman wrote: post #27

When is the last time anyone here has connected successfully to outdoor wifi? Here in NY, I try it all the time in the parks that offer it, without success. (I haven’t tried Google’s wifi near their office in Chelsea, maybe it’s better.) Wifi seems consistently to be a poor choice for large, uncontrolled spaces. If anyone can make it work through sheer engineering will, it’s Google, but the evidence thus far is that…

Why do we keep pinning our hopes on wifi?

It is the only wireless technology that is standard on every device.

Re: Google will pay for free wireless in S.F. parks

#29

Post by yuhong » Fri, Jul 26, 2013, 12:38 AM UTC

psbp wrote: post #18

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

I know there is a lot of negativity around big companies like Google doing "free" things like this. There is even mis-trust over a sense of unease at the notion of "there is no such thing as a free lunch." These feelings are totally valid, and they unfortunately can prevent the rest of the community from acquiring a valuable resource. Free wifi in San Francisco (One of the techiest cities in the world) feels like a "…

I've been curious, do you know how googlers are responding to PRISM?

On this topic, I wrote this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6078124

Re: Google will pay for free wireless in S.F. parks

#30

Post by tylerlh » Fri, Jul 26, 2013, 12:59 AM UTC

I'm disappointed to see they're already on to offering free wifi elsewhere when the network they installed in Mountain View still suffers terribly. I've never seen it operate better than barely usable/non-existent. Hopefully this ends up better.