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As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

lauren.vortex.com

221–230 of 295 posts

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to consume different sources of news media. The only times I've heard the name "Paula Deen" was in conversation with my parents and grandparents. I'm sure her travails (whatever they are or were) amount to a crisis for some people, but you don't have to pay attention to those people.

Vivtek's point was that most people don't care about this, and consider the Paula Deen incident far more noteworthy.

That may have been true for whichever couple of days the talking heads devoted to the unfortunate Ms. Dean, but it simply isn't borne out over the long haul. If you look really hard, I doubt you can find a single piece about Dean that was produced today, while most outlets have several about Snowden.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment leaves much to be desired.

And an attitude of comparing the public to drunken fools doesn't?

Not the point. Idiots will be idiots. It's better to hold yourself to a higher standard.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These criticisms of technological solutions always miss the obvious: both approaches complement each other. If I send my aunt a letter, I am assured that unless there is a warrant, my letter to her will not be read by my government. She doesn't live in my country though, and her country gives no such assurances. More-so, even if it did, I would have no particular reason to trust her government. On that note, what if…

> These criticisms of technological solutions always miss the obvious: both approaches complement each other. In a small way, yes, but in the long run, politics trumps technology. You could achieve privacy from the government if you solved the political issues. But the reverse is not true: if you had the perfect technological solution, they could make using the solution illegal -- including doing away with plausible…

You really seem to be keen on not getting it.

What you are saying essentially boils down to "Don't waste your time with PGP because they could just stick you in a concentration camp." Being stuck in a concentration camp is a problem that needs a political solution (or in that particular extreme case, a violent solution...), so strive for one. Nobody is suggesting that everyone abstain from finding political solutions to political problems.

All the problems you seem to have with technical solutions are things that can be solved with political solutions. If you are advocating the possibility and pursuit of political solutions, as you seem to be doing, then why do you think the problems with technical solutions insurmountable?

Here is my proposal: Everybody use cryptography everywhere, to the full extent that we can manage. We then find political solutions to the political or physical threats to cryptography. If they try to ban cryptography, we fight back politically. If they start beating people with wrenches, we fight back politically. If they try to throw us in camps, we fight back politically (...and violently...).

There is absolutely no reason not to adopt technological solutions where they exist.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all the outcoming gov scandals, with government forcing you to vaccine your kids... All other points aside for a moment: the government should force each and every parent to vaccinate their children. Herd immunity is a key factor in protecting most of the population from many awful diseases, and herd immunity is only effective if the vast majority are vaccinated. There's no credible evidence that vaccination cau…

Yes vaccination is NOT a billion dollar business, vaccines do not kill people, and its perfectly logic you need to get shots against other peoples diseases BUT at the same time those who don't become a danger to you, yes. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/199... http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/03/1... http://vaccinedangers.com/ http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/neu…

I know you are probably far too far down that rabbit hole to hear me, but herd immunity is vital for those who do not have the option of getting vaccinated.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#226
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your point. You could probably say the same about your family. The fact that something is not working as well as it should does not mean it's not essential. I mean, would you prefer feudal lords? Because that's what we had before central government, and that's what many corporations would like. Do you want to be ruled by Google? By Walmart?

Do you want to be ruled by Google? By Walmart? Why is the default assumption by Statists that if the government won't rule us, corporations will? A novel concept that people may want to attempt to grasp is that there could be no rulers, and as such, there's no need to make up a fictitious "new ruler".

> A novel concept that people may want to attempt to grasp is that there could be no rulers, and as such, there's no need to make up a fictitious "new ruler".

Do you want to run the country? Do you think you have the time to run every aspect of the country? If you don't, then you need to delegate the authority to run those things to others. And then the people who are doing those jobs become the rulers in those areas.

And those areas are going to have to work together, at which point you get hierarchies and people similar to managers and fairly rapidly you end up with what we'd call a government.

If you believe there's a better way to run things, then start a company that works in a more egalitarian manner and scale it. As I understand it though, companies that work even vaguely like that have never scaled well beyond a few hundred people at most - i.e. Dunbar's number.

If you want to solve the problem of people needing a government there are serious questions about complexity and conscientiousness (do people even want to run their own affairs?) and how people are meant to work together when they can't know everything about all the areas they'd have to oversee without empowering others even if they just did that as their full time job.

So, my answer to why do I think people need rulers is, essentially, that equality doesn't seem to scale well to the sorts of problems that a country would have to address at the moment - and, implicitly, that anywhere that decides not to be a country anymore is going to get walked all over by anyone that decides to still be a country.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And an attitude of comparing the public to drunken fools doesn't?

Not the point. Idiots will be idiots. It's better to hold yourself to a higher standard.

There is something to be desired about an attitude that conflates people having different values and priorities with their being "idiots."

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#228
post #209
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And looping back to the tin-foil hatters, many of us have called into question why all browsers have, over time, decreased their support for self-signed certificates. There are modes wherein Firefox will not even offer the "proceed anyway" option [1]. Conspiracy theories abound, but the browsers' marginalization of self-signed certificates has always struck me as devious. Yes, please do alert users that self-signed c…

I don't see it follows. If anything, self-signed certs just make it easier for the NSA (or anyone else) to capture your traffic. Organizations should probably set up their own CA instead.

A CA outside the reach of the NSA would be really valuable right now. A free CA outside the reach of the NSA would save the world.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#229
post #129

> Public-key cryptography as we know it today may be rapidly approaching the end of its useful lifespan. No evidence in the article substantiates this bold statement. - "pressuring major Internet firms to provide their "master" SSL keys for government surveillance purposes": this demonstrates a weakness of centralized public-key infrastructures, it does not follow that public-key cryptography is doomed. (See: web of…

All forms of public key encryption require proof that Alice or Bob are who they say they are or you can setup a man in the middle attack. Without a public key athority to Safely provide the correct public key your stuck with manual key exchanges which can work, but does not scale. If the government has the public key authority's private key they can spoof them and setup man in the middle attacks easily.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the point. Idiots will be idiots. It's better to hold yourself to a higher standard.

There is something to be desired about an attitude that conflates people having different values and priorities with their being "idiots."

Sorry, I miscommunicated. I was saying that the person you responded to was being an idiot by calling the general public drunken fools (true or not) and that it's a bad thing to lower to that level of discourse by retaliating in such a content-free manner because you won't change anybody's mind that way. I.e. your position is good, but it's only through expressing ourselves well that we can have an influence on others.

Of course if it was just to feel good about calling out idiocy then it's not necessary to put in much effort countering it.

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