Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

lauren.vortex.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 295 posts

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#91

Post by dasil003 »

> To be clear, this is not to assert that targeted, justified intercepts should not be possible under appropriate and realistic court supervision.

Why make this disclaimer? To avoid being branded a fringe anarchist?

It seems to me that we should absolutely be building intercept-proof communication privacy to the best of our ability since A) there's no such thing as perfect security and B) anything of importance eventually comes into contact with the real world where governments have immense power and don't need backdoors to do their job.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#92

Post by Nursie »

anovikov wrote: post #81
Nursie wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this will last for approximately five minutes until a new ruler establishes themselves either through resource monopolisation or through pure threat of force. And they will never be short of toadies. Why is the default assumption by libertarians that if the government is brought down, human nature will suddenly, completely change?

My view of libertarianism is that it's not a movement to 'fight government'. It is just a system of views that once productive forces of society achieve certain level, government at least as we know it will become redundant. And there is little 'new ruler' can do to establish himself if people don't need a ruler.

>> And there is little 'new ruler' can do to establish himself if people don't need a ruler.

How charmingly naive!

I don't know that people have needed a ruler at many times in history, but there has always been one. A power vacuum almost always results in war, revolution almost always results in war... basically humans like war and leaders. I don't think that will ever go away. We're tribal animals.

Even if people don't need a ruler, leaders will arise, and some of them will recruit violent men to force their will on others, growing into warlords. Factions will fight each other, people will die.

Better, IMHO, to have a codified power structure that seeks to eliminate or at least mitigate these flaws.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#93

Post by btbuildem »

macspoofing wrote: post #73

Does the Federal government not understand that this (idiotic) mass scale surveillance is bad for business? All the big American companies generate most of their revenue outside of the US. Majority of the user-bases of the big Silicon Valley tech companies are foreign. This only works if there is a level of trust in the American system and American government. What are they thinking?!?!

Decentralization is good.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#94

Post by stelonix »

pron wrote: post #52
anovikov wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just meant that in a personal way. That is: if you get into trouble, don't rely on the government to help you, for it is not too much willing to help, and pretty soon will be unable to. If you are in your 20s, no way you should hope the government will pay you pension once you grow old, for example.

I see. In that case, if you're in your 20s maybe you should try to get into politics and change government so that it would work better.

That's a nice view. What sucks is that you need money in order to get elected. And if you're not a millionaire already, chances are corporations won't be willing to lobby for someone proposing to change the status quo.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#96

Post by coldcode »

CodeMage wrote: post #83
rlpb wrote: post #36

A logical conclusion to this is that if/when governments start forcing people to supply them with their private keys, they will also start forcing companies producing encryption software to include backdoors. At this point, I'm thankful that we have Free Software. With access to the source code, forcing the insertion of a backdoor is futile, since somebody else will fork and remove it. With Free Software, we'll still…

At this point, I'm thankful that we have Free Software. Me too, which is why I'm worried about hardware. With enough effort, literally anyone can decide not to trust a binary and check the source. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for hardware: you can't print your own microchips.

Free software means you are a terrorist to them.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#97

Post by coldtea »

btbuildem wrote: post #90
wahsd wrote: post #72

Something that people have apparently not quite connected is that these developments are incremental steps towards and can already be considered within the spectrum of mind reading. The only reason that that a majority of today's people do not recognize the situation as squarely in mind reading territory based on examples from literature and popular culture is that the the technical limitations still retrain governme…

You mean, we have a new paradigm, an unprecedented new perspective and ability, so the first thing we're gonna use it for is to try and kill as many people as we can before they kill us?

>so the first thing we're gonna use it for is to try and kill as many people as we can before they kill us?

As we always did. But let me correct you "the first thing we're gonna use it for is grabbing as much power as we can, which involves killing as many people as we can before they kill us, as they have the unfortunate tendency to resist".

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#98

Post by downandout »

This kind of thing makes me think the Snowden disclosures actually emboldened the NSA in some ways. Their nightmare scenario occurred, and nothing happened. Nobody even got fired or "resigned". The public's tepid reaction has brought our nightmare scenario to life - we taught secretive government agencies that they can now do anything they want without fear of public backlash. These kinds of requests can now dramatically increase, with neither judges, politicians, or the NSA itself living in fear of anyone.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#99

Post by chris_mahan »

chmodd wrote: post #40
rdl wrote: post #20

Sounds like not "the death of public key encryption" but the golden age of building technical controls into hardware/software which cannot be subverted by the operator, even in the face of a state agent with a gun. Assuming the right tech is developed and deployed, this is going to be far better for everyone in a few years. Yes, it will be shitty for a year or two, but by 2020, if we actually have real technical secu…

I hope it works out similarly to how proliferation of public wi-fi led to increased adoption of https.

Did you know it is illegal to broadcast encrypted signals on HAM radio? Wonder how long it will take for that to come to the internet.

Re: As Feds Demand the Keys, Preparing for the Death of Public-Key Encryption

#100

Post by geoffw8 »

wahsd wrote: post #72

Something that people have apparently not quite connected is that these developments are incremental steps towards and can already be considered within the spectrum of mind reading. The only reason that that a majority of today's people do not recognize the situation as squarely in mind reading territory based on examples from literature and popular culture is that the the technical limitations still retrain governme…

Yeah, but thats an entirely different ballgame if you ask me. The thing that differentiates this and mind reading, is full public/mainstream understanding.

Consider:

"Oh hey ma, the damned government is demanding public SSL keys, that means they can grab the data between your computer screen, and [insert popular services] servers"

vs

"Err, ma. The government has just announced they're now going to be reading peoples minds wherever and whenever you are."

I'm sure one would illicit a much more active response, and as ever, its down to full understanding.

Post reply on HN