My god it is about time that someone started looking into this technology. I understand the tech hurdles and the even cleaner tech etc. but think about how much safer LFTRs are. Even just to replace all the running reactors if not build more.
http://www.ted.com/talks/kirk_sorensen_thorium_an_alternativ...
Bill Gates’ nuclear company explores molten salt reactors, thorium
11–20 of 73 posts
Re: Bill Gates’ nuclear company explores molten salt reactors, thorium
#12Why is it so obvious to the internet and no one else that thorium is the future of power? What do they (the experts) know that we don't?
Because nuclear power plants have always been about producing weapons grade plutonium at least in the US; power generation is ancillary. Why else would we cap plant liability at $1billion? A big meltdown will cost way more than that, Fukushima cleanup is now looking to be about $80 billion. Since plants couldn't make the economics work if they had the liability, we had to entice them so we could participate in the arms race.
Re: Bill Gates’ nuclear company explores molten salt reactors, thorium
#13I want a thorium-powered car. http://www.geekosystem.com/thorium-powered-car/
No you don't. Thorium reactors are actually breeder reactors which run off of U-233, one of the byproducts of breeding U-233 is U-232, which emits gamma rays like nobody's business. The only way to stop gamma rays is with lots of shielding made out of high-Z materials, like lead, which is inevitably super heavy. So you'll either get a multi-ton car that crawls or a light-weight car that gives you cancer or a lethal dose of radiation if you drive it more than a few hours.
Re: Bill Gates’ nuclear company explores molten salt reactors, thorium
#14Why is it so obvious to the internet and no one else that thorium is the future of power? What do they (the experts) know that we don't?
People who talk about the awesomeness of Thorium reactors rarely mention the very real downsides and technical hurdles. Such as the gamma radiation issue, or the fuel processing difficulties, and so forth.
Moreover, aside from overcoming those issues building a suitable commercial power reactor will take a lot of time and investment. We're on the cusp of the 4th generation of Uranium/Plutonium fueled fission power reactors which represents many decades of improvement in safety, reliability, and efficiency. Whereas LFTR designs are in their infancy.
The design deserves research, probably even in the $1 bil/yr range or higher, but we're not going to be switching the base load power plants to LFTR technology in the next decade or even in the next three decades. At this point, from a practical standpoint it's only slightly farther along than fusion technology, if that helps put it in perspective.
Re: Bill Gates’ nuclear company explores molten salt reactors, thorium
#15Nathan Myhrvold
He did this cool TED talk about shooting mosquitos out of the air with lasers salvaged from commodity electronics. Since that was years ago, it appears that it is doesn't work in the real world. Par for the course with TED.
A prominent malaria expert tore into him for exploiting a real crisis that kills millions to make his company actually does something good for the world. Going all hi-tech hero when what is really needed in low-tech nets.
So I'll go with evil for $500. Nice cuddly evil but evil nonetheless.
Re: Bill Gates’ nuclear company explores molten salt reactors, thorium
#16They say Bill Gates because he's famous. This is a spinoff of Nathan Myhrvold's Intellectual Ventures - which is a patent trolling company. They may talk about plans to produce actual nuclear power, but I'll believe it when I see it. However it is guaranteed to create a lot of patents. Personally, even if it does succeed, I would have a bad taste in my mouth for anything and everything involved because I do not like…
Do you know him? Honesty I don't have a huge amount of information about his other dealings, but I think there is a genuine case for what he is trying to do with IV, even if you disagree with with methods. With me and my company, he has been a man of tremendous character and generosity. I daresay you and most others are prejudging the situation. In error. Keep in mind, I am no fan of the patent system either. http://…
They make deals where they sell patents to East Texas shell companies but keep 90% of the proceeds from their shakedown lawsuits. That's what This American Life uncovered recently—they looked at just one (laughably illegitimate) patent, and found that hundreds of millions of dollars had been extracted using that one alone. I don't know how you could listen to that and not find the case devastating. If the broadcast was unfair, I'd very much like to hear the rebuttal. All TAL did was follow up on the example that IV themselves had given as exemplary of what they do, and it turned out to be shockingly unjust. So I do think most people here would disagree with their methods.
Re: Bill Gates’ nuclear company explores molten salt reactors, thorium
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you know him? Honesty I don't have a huge amount of information about his other dealings, but I think there is a genuine case for what he is trying to do with IV, even if you disagree with with methods. With me and my company, he has been a man of tremendous character and generosity. I daresay you and most others are prejudging the situation. In error. Keep in mind, I am no fan of the patent system either. http://…
> Do you know him? I didn't know Adolf Hitler, but I know enough of him to know that he wasn't a nice person. Patent trolling is a legal form of extortion. It is evil. Myhrvold is an evil man.
Calling Myhrvold 'evil' and putting himself in the same context as Hitler is absurd. One is a businessman whose tactics you disapprove of and consider to be unethical, the other instigated the murder of millions of people, over and above the casualties of the numerous wars that he started.
Re: Bill Gates’ nuclear company explores molten salt reactors, thorium
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you know him? Honesty I don't have a huge amount of information about his other dealings, but I think there is a genuine case for what he is trying to do with IV, even if you disagree with with methods. With me and my company, he has been a man of tremendous character and generosity. I daresay you and most others are prejudging the situation. In error. Keep in mind, I am no fan of the patent system either. http://…
They make deals where they sell patents to East Texas shell companies but keep 90% of the proceeds from their shakedown lawsuits. That's what This American Life uncovered recently—they looked at just one (laughably illegitimate) patent, and found that hundreds of millions of dollars had been extracted using that one alone. I don't know how you could listen to that and not find the case devastating. If the broadcast w…
Re: Bill Gates’ nuclear company explores molten salt reactors, thorium
#19They say Bill Gates because he's famous. This is a spinoff of Nathan Myhrvold's Intellectual Ventures - which is a patent trolling company. They may talk about plans to produce actual nuclear power, but I'll believe it when I see it. However it is guaranteed to create a lot of patents. Personally, even if it does succeed, I would have a bad taste in my mouth for anything and everything involved because I do not like…
Do you know him? Honesty I don't have a huge amount of information about his other dealings, but I think there is a genuine case for what he is trying to do with IV, even if you disagree with with methods. With me and my company, he has been a man of tremendous character and generosity. I daresay you and most others are prejudging the situation. In error. Keep in mind, I am no fan of the patent system either. http://…
He may be a nice enough guy, but how can you possibly justify what he does with IV? I doubt he's an evil person, but what he does with patents is very plainly evil.
Re: Bill Gates’ nuclear company explores molten salt reactors, thorium
#20Why is it so obvious to the internet and no one else that thorium is the future of power? What do they (the experts) know that we don't?
Because Thorium isn't the answer. What I don't get, that people who care about technology and about freedom prefer a centralised technology like fission power over a decentralised technology like solar or wind, in combination with electricity storage. So far nobody has developed a reactor design which is really better or cleaner than what it is currently available. No "new" design could deliver what it has promised.…
Wind and solar aren't the answer either, or you wouldn't be having this discussion because it would already have been deployed. The economics of all intermittent power sources make it unfeasible; Installing the necessary transmission lines to all those decentralized sites, the energy lost during transmission to and from storage, the costs of storing that much power, and the other inefficiencies of generating the power, make what you propose very unrealistic.
Nuclear power is millions of times more energy dense than solar, wind, and fossil fuels. Though the current generation of nuclear reactors have some significant drawbacks, not the least of which is the inefficient use of fuels leading to nuclear wastes, they still generate much cleaner power than the alternatives.
Liquid Salt reactor designs based on Thorium take aim specifically at the nuclear fuel and waste problems. Rather than using 1% of the solid fuel like today's reactors, it's possible for liquid salt reactors to use up nearly 99% of the fuel, reducing the waste problem by many orders of magnitude, and would not contain the transuranics that take 10s of thousands of years to decay.
It's a good thing that serious people are looking into radically different forms of nuclear power. The current conventional reactors were based off of designs for producing materials for weapons, and it's high time we set that garbage aside and consider other options.