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Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

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Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#211

Post by [deleted] »

antitrust wrote: post #210
jivatmanx wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War is politics by other means. When a war ends without the politics being settled, the seed of conflict remains. However, most either people lack this longer term vision and falsely perceive a physical wins as an ultimate "victory", or don't care because they won't be around then. "This isn't a peace, it's a twenty year truce!" - Ferdinand Foch, regarding the Treaty of Versailles As an aside, the U.S's failure to pr…

I enjoyed reading your reply. I like the "spherical cow" metaphor. Foch was proven right. It must have been maddening for him to know the truth of the situation, but be over-ruled by popular sentiment toward ending a disastrous and suicidal war. This makes me want to reconsider all of my own knowledge of course, because as your examples illustrate, it's possible that there is something worse than being wrong, and it…

[deleted]

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#212

Post by spiritplumber »

jivatmanx wrote: post #193
antitrust wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wars don't end until the underlying issue is settled. In this case it is very much as it was in 1914, which is "which large conglomerate of regional interests will rule the world," with participants being Russia, Europe and the USA. In the intervening years, we have added China, India and South America to the competition. But otherwise... "same as it ever was."

War is politics by other means. When a war ends without the politics being settled, the seed of conflict remains. However, most either people lack this longer term vision and falsely perceive a physical wins as an ultimate "victory", or don't care because they won't be around then. "This isn't a peace, it's a twenty year truce!" - Ferdinand Foch, regarding the Treaty of Versailles As an aside, the U.S's failure to pr…

The various three letter agencies had no interest in correctly predicting the USSR's collapse as it'd get them defunded. I'm not saying that there was a conspiracy to not forewarn the various US administrations, I'm just saying that all the analysts slightl skewed things the other way, and the effect accumulated.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#213

Post by VladRussian2 »

rantanplan wrote: post #64
pvnick wrote: post #59

It seems he accepted Putin's terms to not release anymore information. I wonder if that means no more information coming out, period, or that since most/all of the information is now with third parties that it's their responsibility. I doubt Putin likes being disrespected with loopholes and technicalities, but I more-so doubt that Snowden would halt the revelations altogether for the sake of his own safety. I suspect…

I think that Putin simply cares about appearing cooperative with his American "friends", so as to avoid any repercussions. Also there is definitely some play on words here, since we know that Snowden cannot have any control about the information he has already given to various individuals. So yes, he probably won't release any more info personally .

For Putin harboring an "active" foreign dissident would make it just a little bit harder to make live less awesome for the internal dissidents. On the other side, giving protection from "evil" Americans to a young naive guy who is being too harshly pursued by the whole overwhelming force of the said Americans' government for possibly violating some obscure laws in order to defend and promote democracy and openness, etc.. - well, Putin looks almost like a good Samaritan (God forbid that Samaritan come to your help like he came for Snowden) and, by proxy, a democracy defender and promoter :)

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#214

Post by falk »

twoodfin wrote: post #165
falk wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States government traffics drugs such as heroin [1], has started wars under false pretenses to profit multi-national corporations [2] [3], backs death squads in Indonesia [4], tried to convince Martin Luther King Jr. to commit suicide [5], has conducted covert operations to dismantle and replace government structures across the world [6], has conducted experiments involving drugs like LSD on unwilling part…

Do you honestly believe they haven't killed any vocal opponents including journalists? I certainly won't believe it until you give me a name of a journalist who was killed because the U.S. government didn't like his or her reporting. A giant wall of links to such 'evidence' as the Wikipedia page on the Iraq war doesn't impress me, nor does your later link, from which you decided to pull a quote about "targeted killin…

I'm not trying to convince you. I'm pointing out atrocities and lies committed by the United States government. We aren't below killing journalists. I figured you would due some sort of due diligence by visiting the link and reading the sections about supposed WMDs.

Here's a great documentary and book on how we were lied into the Iraq war. It's called Hubris: Selling the Iraq War. Watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5FaMbnINwc

I did give you a name, Tareq Ayoub, a journalist that was killed by U.S. bombs when we bombed Al Jazeera's headquarters in Baghdad.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#216

Post by kostyakow »

SimHacker wrote: post #201
kostyakow wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anything would be different if he was a woman.

How deftly you dodged half of the question. What if he were a gay woman?

I didn't dodge the question, because I agree with the first part -- Russia is a horrible country with a corrupt government that imprisons/kills activists and journalists.

I only disagree with a minor detail you mentioned -- there would be no difference if he was female, because in Russia there is no discrimination against women (at least not more then in any Western country).

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#217

Post by kaonashi »

tootie wrote: post #28
kwal0203 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think He'll be getting any FSB (new KGB) protection. They most likely control him now.

I think I'd rather do 2 years at Club Fed in the US than be under FSB control in Russia. I mean, Putin straight kills journalists.

If you think that's what's in store for Snowden should he return to the U.S., I think you're really naive. I would expect something along the lines of the Manning treatment (psychological torture).

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#218

Post by Wingman4l7 »

kyllo wrote: post #72
olalonde wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Much better than China anyway. Why do you think Russia is a much better choice for him then China?

China is fairly stable politically, but they practice more active censorship and have worse human rights violations compared to Russia today. They have strict visa regulations, a strict national ID system, and they definitely spy on people's e-mails and phone conversations. Skype had to release a special, wiretapped version specifically for China. They lack even a semblance of democracy, and protests are forbidden. J…

> Skype had to release a special, wiretapped version specifically for China.

I am simultaneously outraged and not in the least surprised. Just curious -- do you have a source for this?

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#219

Post by kyllo »

Wingman4l7 wrote: post #218
kyllo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is fairly stable politically, but they practice more active censorship and have worse human rights violations compared to Russia today. They have strict visa regulations, a strict national ID system, and they definitely spy on people's e-mails and phone conversations. Skype had to release a special, wiretapped version specifically for China. They lack even a semblance of democracy, and protests are forbidden. J…

> Skype had to release a special, wiretapped version specifically for China. I am simultaneously outraged and not in the least surprised. Just curious -- do you have a source for this?

When Internet users in China try to access Skype.com, they are diverted to the TOM-Skype site. While the Chinese version bears the blue Skype logo—and provides services for online phone calls and text chats—it’s a modified version of the program found elsewhere. The surveillance feature in TOM-Skype, which has 96 million users in China, scans messages for specific words and phrases. When the program finds a match, it sends a copy of the offending missive to a TOM-Skype server, along with the account’s username, time and date of transmission, and whether the message was sent or received by the user

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-03-08/skypes-been-...

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#220

Post by madaxe »

DominikR wrote: post #144
madaxe wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've ever been near a russian land border, you'd know sneaking ain't an option - they're still very much into their 30 foot razor wire fences, and mile wide minefields. AFAIK, the only borders which aren't demarked as such are those which ramble across incredibly inhospitable desert, which serves the same purpose as razor wire and mines.

I'd suggest you look up Russia and the length of its border on Google Maps and then think again about the feasibility of razor wire fences and mile wide minefields.

I'd suggest you go there and see with your own eyes? I'm not sure what your point is. Feasibility isn't really something the USSR ever factored in.
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