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How I Cured my RSI Pain (2010)

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Re: How I Cured my RSI Pain (2010)

#31

Post by sillysaurus »

akiselev wrote: post #23
sillysaurus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chiropractic medicine for anything other than lower back pain and Acupuncture are two forms of alternative medicine that are well known to work off the placebo effect, yet the article mentions their use despite alleging to be a skeptic. This is a major red flag. Trying something to check whether it works is orthogonal to being skeptical about it. In fact, it's the heart of science.

Making very specific predictions via a hypothesis and gathering specific, and plentiful, data that test your predictions is the heart of science. Anecdotes (on which all alternative medicine is based on) do not make good science and "trying something to check whether it works" with a sample size of one is the worst way to do medicine.

Actually, the scientific method is the heart of science, and the method is to check a hypothesis.

When the goal is to fix yourself, the only relevant sample size is yourself. And when the problem may be psychological, then placebo effect may fix it, because you believe you've fixed it.

Re: How I Cured my RSI Pain (2010)

#34

Post by Apes »

sillysaurus wrote: post #31
akiselev wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making very specific predictions via a hypothesis and gathering specific, and plentiful, data that test your predictions is the heart of science. Anecdotes (on which all alternative medicine is based on) do not make good science and "trying something to check whether it works" with a sample size of one is the worst way to do medicine.

Actually, the scientific method is the heart of science, and the method is to check a hypothesis. When the goal is to fix yourself, the only relevant sample size is yourself. And when the problem may be psychological, then placebo effect may fix it, because you believe you've fixed it.

Hello Sillysaurus,

You're making a dangerous connection here. Alternative medicine such as TMS helping reduce pain through the placebo effect does not suggest that the alternative medicine is effective. It just proves that the placebo effect is real.

Alternative medicine may help in instances where the placebo effect is all that is needed. Unfortunately, there is risk that people may use alternative medicine as a replacement for real medicine and cause themselves unnecessary harm.

Re: How I Cured my RSI Pain (2010)

#35

Post by jthol »

fabvanso wrote: post #13

This does not work at all. The causes behind RSI are physical and real.

Psychology can play a component though. If you are tense your muscles start off tighter and are easier to fatigue. You are also more likely to be hunched over your keyboard resulting in worse posture.

I'm skeptical about the book and the miracle cure side of it but, i don't think psychology can be completely ruled out.

Re: How I Cured my RSI Pain (2010)

#36

Post by MichaelGG »

This book is NOT "rigorously scientific". The guy comes off as a bit of a nut, and wastes paragraphs defending Freud (seriously, wtf?).

That said, he might be right that there's a psychological component to RSI, even if his explanations and theories are incorrect. After all, fall and winter come even though Demeter isn't actually crying for Persephone.

This book helped my RSI by convincing me enough that it might be psychological, even though I tossed the book in disgust after a few chapters. For a few years my pain seemed to have gone away completely, although it's back somewhat now.

Re: How I Cured my RSI Pain (2010)

#37

Post by rafski »

Apes wrote: post #14

Please be careful with this article. It is not remotely skeptical, and seems to be highly biased in the favor of Dr. Sarno's book. Chiropractic medicine for anything other than lower back pain and Acupuncture are two forms of alternative medicine that are well known to work off the placebo effect, yet the article mentions their use despite alleging to be a skeptic. This is a major red flag. There is not a large amoun…

You're saying "placebo effect" like it's a bad thing. Many doctors agree placebo is a powerful drug, and a component of every type of pill administered to a conscious person. Even a consultation with a doctor can have a positive, even if unmeasurable placebo effect on a patient's health. If this method is about effective application of placebo and it works, at least for some people, what harm can be in it?

Re: How I Cured my RSI Pain (2010)

#38

Post by flatline »

fabvanso wrote: post #13

This does not work at all. The causes behind RSI are physical and real.

Pain is not terribly well understood. I mean, we generally know how nerve impulses convey a signal to the CNS, but how the brain chooses to interpret those signals as "pain" is still something of a mystery. There is an area of research called neuromatrix theory that started out trying to explain phantom limbs, but has possible applications to chronic pain as well. From the little I've read about it, the idea is that the brain can start interpreting normal sensations as painful, or can create sensations that are not there. While this is an actual area if research, unlike Sarno's books, there are some interesting similarities.

Re: How I Cured my RSI Pain (2010)

#39

Post by rafski »

Apes wrote: post #34
sillysaurus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the scientific method is the heart of science, and the method is to check a hypothesis. When the goal is to fix yourself, the only relevant sample size is yourself. And when the problem may be psychological, then placebo effect may fix it, because you believe you've fixed it.

Hello Sillysaurus, You're making a dangerous connection here. Alternative medicine such as TMS helping reduce pain through the placebo effect does not suggest that the alternative medicine is effective. It just proves that the placebo effect is real. Alternative medicine may help in instances where the placebo effect is all that is needed. Unfortunately, there is risk that people may use alternative medicine as a rep…

I'm trying to picture what harm can be caused by telling one's pain to go, other than delaying traditional treatment.

Re: How I Cured my RSI Pain (2010)

#40

Post by Apes »

rafski wrote: post #37
Apes wrote: post #14

Please be careful with this article. It is not remotely skeptical, and seems to be highly biased in the favor of Dr. Sarno's book. Chiropractic medicine for anything other than lower back pain and Acupuncture are two forms of alternative medicine that are well known to work off the placebo effect, yet the article mentions their use despite alleging to be a skeptic. This is a major red flag. There is not a large amoun…

You're saying "placebo effect" like it's a bad thing. Many doctors agree placebo is a powerful drug, and a component of every type of pill administered to a conscious person. Even a consultation with a doctor can have a positive, even if unmeasurable placebo effect on a patient's health. If this method is about effective application of placebo and it works, at least for some people, what harm can be in it?

The negativity that you are sensing is not against the placebo effect, but against treatments that claim legitimacy and use anecdotes that are easily explained by the placebo effect as evidence of their effectiveness.

A placebo is by definition something that has no effect at all. Any improvement in the state of someone taking a placebo must be attributed instead to something other than the placebo. However, patients will attribute their improvement to the placebo. This is the placebo effect.

No doctor would literally say that a placebo is a "powerful drug", since it is by definition completely inert. However, they may say so in a figurative manner to mean that patients will claim effectiveness of ineffective treatments due to the placebo effect.

Treatments that rely on the placebo effect have two major negative aspects. First they may prevent people from seeking a truly effective means of treatment. Second, they take money for providing a treatment that has no actual value.

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