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Amazon Unpacked

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Re: Amazon Unpacked

#61

Post by TeMPOraL »

kristopolous wrote: post #5

I like how the unit of size was football pitch. I guess around the world it's assumed that the reader has intimate familiarity with lining up sporting fields but can't handle things like a metric system.

I also don't like using "football pitches" as an unit of size[0], but unfortunately you and me are not the target audience of this comparison.

> I guess around the world it's assumed that the reader has intimate familiarity with lining up sporting fields

Because it's probably true for the great majority of the population.

[0] - I've been to a real football pitch maybe 3 - 4 times in my life (for non-sports related events), I don't usually watch football and I don't plan on starting to do it. I'd much prefer for sizes to be measured in multiples of Space Shuttle wingspan, but I guess it won't fly with 99.9% of people ;).

Re: Amazon Unpacked

#62

Post by TeMPOraL »

cpeterso wrote: post #60
potatolicious wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked a job before that involved a lot of walking (fittest I've ever been, sadly), I probably came close to the 15 miles-a-day bar. It's really not that bad, assuming the environment isn't a grueling hellhole. Which Amazon warehouses reportedly are. Lots of reports of lack of air conditioning and unreasonably high temperatures. Walking 15 miles a day in a reasonably cooled warehouse is a piece of cake. 15 miles…

Why does Amazon let their warehouses get so hot? There are news stories about Amazon parking ambulances outside warehouses on hot days. Instead of reducing the time to take heat exhausted workers to the hospital, why not prevent the problem in the first place? http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2017901782_a...

Probably because properly air-conditioning huge spaces (that are weather-protected by design; e.g. you can't just keep roof open) eats up tons of electricity.

Re: Amazon Unpacked

#63

Post by qq66 »

eliben wrote: post #9

I wonder how long it takes for such jobs to be fully robot-staffed. I had the impression it's already the case for some types of warehouse tasks. With very high likeness, within our lifetime there will be no need for human pac-mans.

It'll take a long time. Observe that:

1) Unemployment is high and shows no signs of structural reduction, and minimum wage remains flat.

2) Salaries for computer programmers are at an all-time high, when you can recruit them.

3) Energy and materials costs continue to increase.

It doesn't make economic sense to have a lot of highly-paid engineers building resource-intensive robots when you can hire people to do the same jobs.

Re: Amazon Unpacked

#64

Post by coolnow »

BashiBazouk wrote: post #56
yummyfajitas wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, after hustling for 15 miles a shift making minimum wage, you aren't going to be able to return to your shelter and work on a skill or education. You'd have to eat and sleep and recover. Walking for 7-15 miles, spread over an 8 hour day, is not actually all that strenuous. It's worse than an office job, but it's pretty light exercise. In terms of calories burned, it's about double a typical boxing workout (roug…

Well, keep in mind the recovery is less the total calories burned and more the act of putting your entire body weight on the soles of your feet for eight hours on cement floors in crappy shoes. Also, four to five hours of walking is not "pretty light exercise". It's a decent workout. Average speed for walking is around 3mph not 2, and if pressed by electronic monitoring and management, a bit faster than that. Probabl…

As someone who works at a relatively large warehouse for a billion pound UK retailer, i can attest to the "walking is not pretty light exercise". Sure, if you walked for leisure, it'd be nothing, but when you have such high targets you need to reach and management always peering around corners and always ending their conversations with "Okay now, hurry up you're falling behind", it makes the experience way more difficult. Also, the breaks are set out in a way that makes life absolute hell (for me, anyway). On Saturday, we have 10-15 minutes after 2 hours. Then 2 hours after that, we have a 45 minute unpaid lunch. Then 2 hours after that, we have a 20 minute break. That day goes by so fast and without any problems. On Sundays, we have a 15 minute break less than an hour after our shift starts. After 2 hours, we have 45 minute unpaid lunch. 2 hours after that, we have our last break. Then we have a solid block of 3.5 hours without any rest. It typically takes me a full day of resting my feet to feel better because i'm not the lightest person, and being on my feet for so long especially without rest really makes a big big difference when comparing Sat and Sun.

Yes, i have made it known to senior management that this break arrangement is bizarre for Sundays (it's because we work 12pm - 8pm on Sat but on Sunday, it's 2pm - 10pm so everything shifted forward 2 hours apart from the breaks, which have to accommodate to permanent staff who still work 12pm - 8pm on Sunday). They just tell em they're working on it. Not a lot of people listen to agency workers there, seeing as though we hardly last 2 or 3 months, but i've been working for almost a year now and still i've not got half the attention that's given to permanents. Has it got to do with unions or something?

Re: Amazon Unpacked

#65

Post by retroafroman »

qq66 wrote: post #63
eliben wrote: post #9

I wonder how long it takes for such jobs to be fully robot-staffed. I had the impression it's already the case for some types of warehouse tasks. With very high likeness, within our lifetime there will be no need for human pac-mans.

It'll take a long time. Observe that: 1) Unemployment is high and shows no signs of structural reduction, and minimum wage remains flat. 2) Salaries for computer programmers are at an all-time high, when you can recruit them. 3) Energy and materials costs continue to increase. It doesn't make economic sense to have a lot of highly-paid engineers building resource-intensive robots when you can hire people to do the sa…

This is the most correct reply in all the comment section. I work in operatioa consulting for warehouses and previously worked for an automation company. Very, very few companies are willing to pay more for automation. A lot of times, it just doesn't make sense. Even if there will be a projected return on investment in a few years its a hard sell.

Re: Amazon Unpacked

#66

Post by x0x0 »

leef wrote: post #55
droopyEyelids wrote: post #8

It's funny how a job like this fits with the cultural idea of 'the dignity of work.' The politicians and Amazon describe the human-robot job in positive terms, like they're helping the community. But the real way jobs help people is by providing them with enough resources to improve their situation, and gain control of their lives. Working in an Amazon factory doesn't do that. First, after hustling for 15 miles a shi…

That is not true. Success in a job is not always defined by thinking outside the box and being creative. Often it is much simpler - show up to work on time, produce, add value as depicted in your job description. The people that do these things are the people at get the full time job at Amazon, become shift supervisors, etc. I have worked with people who started out at Amazon on the floor and are now high level manag…

yeah, with ambulances staged right outside when people keel over from heat stroke [1]

   So many ambulances responded to medical assistance calls at the warehouse 
   during a heat wave in May, the paper said, that the retailer paid Cetronia 
   Ambulance Corps to have paramedics and ambulances stationed outside the 
   warehouse during several days of excess heat over the summer. About 15 
   people were taken to hospitals, while 20 or 30 more were treated right 
   there, the ambulance chief told The Call.
so just like disney, really

[1] http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-very...

Re: Amazon Unpacked

#67

Post by EliRivers »

nkurz wrote: post #59
EliRivers wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we pay well over minimum wage because of the nature of the work The article indicates the basic wage is one penny over minimum wage.

You are correct about the article, but the OP's "we" refers the distribution center that he works for, which is not run by Amazon. Presumably it is located somewhere there are other job possibilities, and thus has to pay a premium to attract workers.

I'd prefer to think that it's not driven by the dehumanising worship of the great God market, but instead by not wanting to treat humans as fungible cattle.

Unlikely, but if we don't dream we won't rise.

Re: Amazon Unpacked

#68

Post by axgop »

pdx wrote: post #36
axgop wrote: post #26

I work in a distribution center (not one of Amazon's and not on the floor). What they're describing in the article is pretty much industry standard for non-robotic picking. It's a very difficult and demanding job and we're very up front about that. People take the job figuring they can sling a few boxes and a large percent leave within their probationary period because they underestimate the work no matter how much y…

The walking part of it was one of the things that jumped out at me. 15 miles is a hike. To do that every day on concrete would tear you up. Since you work at such a place, what is the feasibility of motorized "scooter carts", that you could ride on, perhaps standing up, as you go from location to location?

We use powered pallet jacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallet_jack). The catch with those is that a lot of items are close enough together in the warehouse that most guys end up walking alongside their jack. Still, it beats manually dragging two pallets' worth of product on what could end up being a two mile trip per order.
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