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Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

defundthensa.com

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Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#61

Post by czr80 »

snitko wrote: post #28
czr80 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let me get this straight: we abolish taxes, eliminate governments, and then ... paradise?

It depends on how you define paradise. If paradise is the same as now, but without massively killing population of foreign countries with drones, keeping people in prison without trial and massively spying on your own people, then yes, it's going to be paradise. If your question is whether we can still have a civilized, stable and prosperous society, ask yourself would the demand for the good things that are currentl…

You need to wrestle with three issues:

- Preventing the emergence of warring factions [1]

- Enforcement of rules underlying market transactions (e.g., contract law, property rights, policing, etc.)

- Underinvestment in public goods, such as basic research and national defense [2]

There is zero evidence that these three things are addressable at scale without some type of government, although of course we are free to argue forever about the level of centralisation, marginal tax rates, precise scope of activities, and so on.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warlord

[2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#63

Post by unimpressive »

snitko wrote: post #59
unimpressive wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This true seeker has some questions: How do you deal with petty crime? It would be impractical to set up a temporary court for every theft. How do you hold the criminals while they're prosecuted, if they're prosecuted? Anarchists generally don't like prisons. Do you have a jail as a temporary holding cell? How do you stop external forces from taking over? As the old adage goes "If you want peace, prepare for war.".

Those questions already have great answers. I can probably only recommend you a couple of authors like David D. Friedman and Stefan Molyneux, they all address the questions you asked. In short, yes, there will be courts and prisons. But in general, try to think of people from the middle ages wondering how would a country work without a king and what a crazy idea a democracy is. Or how stupid and primitive those trogl…

>David D. Friedman and Stefan Molyneux

Any particular volumes?

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#65

Post by chernevik »

oleganza wrote: post #24
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #2

This is something real, tangible, and valuable that we can all actually do. All of this month I have felt powerless. This is something within everyone's power to do, and it can definitely help start the ball rolling back the way it came. It is pretty unfortunate that there is such a short window of time in which this information can be disseminated. I can imagine if there were a bit more time, this could really sprea…

I disagree, it is not something real or tangible. I'm all for defunding NSA, but it's not like a regular business which you can boycott by not giving them money. You have to go and ask permission from the government to not give the money (which they previously extracted from you by force for the "good of society") to some of the government agencies. It's pretty much like going to NSA itself and ask them to defund the…

If you make this a choice between the surveillance super state and anarchy, you'll get the super state. Everyone knows we need some kind of government.

It's definitely hard to imagine the NSA being defunded, but that is rooted in a culture that is less concerned with government compliance with law and more with "reasonable" outcomes. The inability to control institutions, and the establishment of those institutions as powers in their own right, is the logical consequence.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#66

Post by [deleted] »

healsdata wrote: post #60
[deleted] wrote: post #36

[deleted]

The US isn't a direct democracy and, if I understand history correctly, that was on purpose and not just a matter of practicality. A direct democracy allows the majority to pass laws that benefit themselves while punishing the minority. We already have politicians passing ridiculous laws just to pander for votes; I can't see how it wouldn't be worse if the people being pandered to made the laws instead. The internet…

[deleted]

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#67

Post by snitko »

unimpressive wrote: post #63
snitko wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those questions already have great answers. I can probably only recommend you a couple of authors like David D. Friedman and Stefan Molyneux, they all address the questions you asked. In short, yes, there will be courts and prisons. But in general, try to think of people from the middle ages wondering how would a country work without a king and what a crazy idea a democracy is. Or how stupid and primitive those trogl…

>David D. Friedman and Stefan Molyneux Any particular volumes?

"The Machinery Of Freedom" by David D. Friedman discusses many aspects of workings of a society without a government.

"Everyday Anarchy" by Stefan Molyneux demonstrates how we already live most of our lives in complete anarchy and how it actually works pretty good.

Both are available for free.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#68

Post by nakedrobot2 »

[deleted] wrote: post #36

[deleted]

A direct democracy would probably be even more shortsighted than today's flawed system. It would almost certainly be hell on earth.

No, the answer is NOT direct democracy. For samples of what your average fellow human thinks about the world and whether you think it's a good idea to entrust them with governance, please search a random keyword on Twitter and see what you find. It will not be pretty.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#70

Post by falk »

unimpressive wrote: post #63
snitko wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those questions already have great answers. I can probably only recommend you a couple of authors like David D. Friedman and Stefan Molyneux, they all address the questions you asked. In short, yes, there will be courts and prisons. But in general, try to think of people from the middle ages wondering how would a country work without a king and what a crazy idea a democracy is. Or how stupid and primitive those trogl…

>David D. Friedman and Stefan Molyneux Any particular volumes?

This guy is nothing more than an extremist. Ask him about his prison system and I'm sure he'll parrot how privatized prisons are the solution to our woes. Alas, they aren't. Be weary of someone trying to tell you that if we just did X everything would be so much better.
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