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Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

defundthensa.com

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Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#41

Post by falk »

johnpowell wrote: post #22

We elected Bush in 2004 when he had Tom Ridge upping the terror alert every week before the election. It never seemed to go down. But it always managed to go up to red every week. I think we have hit the point that you can't really roll anything back. If you do and 9/11 v.2.0 happens you are politically screwed. And, unfortunately, it is all about the next election and soccer moms.

"We elected Bush in 2004 when he had Tom Ridge upping the terror alert every week before the election."

You hit the nail right on the head. The problem in America isn't the politicians, it's the people.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#42

Post by vaadu »

"The bill gives taxpayer money to fund defense programs, including NSA surveillance."

Why does it take money to defund an operation? Doesn't "defund" mean to not allocate money for.

Obama says he will veto. So what? If no money is allocated for said programs where is the budget for them coming from?

These NSA programs are only the tip of the iceberg of intrusions. Consumer" rel="nofollow">http://www.govexec.com/technology/2013/04/consumer-bureau-de... Credit Bureau collects all financial data on US citizens and obamacare will be collecting and sharing everything medical with numerous federal agencies.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#43

Post by infinity0 »

rb2e wrote: post #32
infinity0 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post accomplishes nothing except to persuade people to give up the fight for civil liberties. You propose no solution or do you give any additional insight into developing a solution. Regardless of your actual intentions, you might as well be performing psychological propaganda. It's not helpful.

No offence is taken. I've been reading and studying Intelligence/espionage for a long time. Not the fancy James Bond stuff, just the boring average, mundane stuff of the past 100 years. I offer no solution because quite frankly, there isn't one. Unless you want to shut down the US military's and civilian intelligence gathering capabilities, it's not going to happen. There will always be reading your mail and listenin…

You're repeating yourself, and so I'll repeat myself: it's not helpful.

Unless you are prepared to give a mathematical proof of your claims, you ought to doubt them yourself. A priori, there is "no reason" (to mirror your argument) that life ought to have evolved 5 billion years ago on this planet.

Likewise, there are lots of tech projects aimed at countering this sort of thing; saying they won't succeed only makes the participants more determined. :) Propaganda is a double-edged sword.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#44

Post by ksrm »

infinity0 wrote: post #25
rb2e wrote: post #19

The NSA is the heart of the intelligence gathering apparatus of the US Military Industrial Complex. Like it or not, this bill will pass either tomorrow or another day, tacked on to another bill. It is strategic to the military and the country. There is no way in hell, this bill will not pass. You can scream, occupy the streets, protest, do whatever but it will not change a thing. It will go through. The US military I…

Your post accomplishes nothing except to persuade people to give up the fight for civil liberties. You propose no solution or do you give any additional insight into developing a solution. Regardless of your actual intentions, you might as well be performing psychological propaganda. It's not helpful.

It's accurate though, isn't it.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#45

Post by falk »

Dr_chaos wrote: post #39

LOL Fools You know that the CIA run most of the drugs in and out of the great US. You know that they have massive surplus cash? Like so big they don't really know what to do with it These 'government' bodies can and will exist without government. This is how they fund most if not all their black ops, that way nothing needs to be on the books. if we stopped public money, I doubt it would even make a dent

This may sound farfetched, but it's not. If you're interested in learning more about the CIA and drugs, I recommend the following:

- The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade by Alfred W. McCoy [1]

- Whiteout: The CIA, Drugs and the Press by Alexander Cockburn [2]

- Acid Dreams: The Complete Social History of LSD: The CIA, the Sixties, and Beyond by Martin A. Lee [3]

[1] http://www.amazon.com/The-Politics-Heroin-Complicity-Global/...

[2] http://www.amazon.com/Whiteout-The-CIA-Drugs-Press/dp/185984...

[3] http://www.amazon.com/Acid-Dreams-Complete-History-Sixties/d...

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#46

Post by oleganza »

MisterWebz wrote: post #40
oleganza wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, it is not something real or tangible. I'm all for defunding NSA, but it's not like a regular business which you can boycott by not giving them money. You have to go and ask permission from the government to not give the money (which they previously extracted from you by force for the "good of society") to some of the government agencies. It's pretty much like going to NSA itself and ask them to defund the…

Why wouldn't a boycott work? Instead of signing petitions that won't change a thing, try something that actually requires some real effort and look for alternatives to the current tech giants. For starters, stop using Facebook (gasp). When they realize that cooperating with the NSA will severely damage their reputation, they'll think twice before handing over user data this easily. Not to mention that if they realize…

Boycotting government is what I was talking about. The problem is to protect yourself and your property against coercion.

No one "cooperates" with NSA. Companies would have their bank accounts and other property seized if they don't obey orders. Even if some court later decides to return their property, company would already be fatally harmed. If you want to continue your business, you must comply.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#47

Post by mtgx »

In theory it sounds nice, but how many black ops and secret budgets already exist? "Defunding the NSA", will just mean its "official" budget will be cut, and under everyone's noses, they will keep being funded through secret budgets.

I'm not saying it shouldn't happen - eventually - but first the priority should be to repeal the Patriot Act and the FISA Amendments Act, and end the secret FISA Court, or at least overhaul it in such a way that it's public, judges get elected in a much more democratic way than simply having one person naming them, as it is right now, and allow adversarial hearings, and for people to be able to use FOIA against this sort of spying.

If it's done on an American citizen (under a proper warrant - and not en masse), then that citizen should be able to request a FOIA for it, and get an almost completely unredacted document. If there's an investigation done on him currently, then at most he can get a few months delay, to a year. After that everyone should be able to use FOIA to get these documents.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#48

Post by MisterWebz »

[deleted] wrote: post #36

[deleted]

> remember that threats from the US are the only thing that prevents many countries from doing more horrible shit than they already do.

You mean horrible shit like drone strikes that kill innocent civilians, illegally detaining "terrorists" and torturing them, spying on the whole world, and commanding other countries to ground a president's plane? Is that the kind of shit "they" already do?

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