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Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes
101–110 of 154 posts
Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes
#102I've never understood how these two positions are logically consistent: (1) We do not torture people on principle (2) We use drone strikes that sometimes kill innocent bystanders because the ends justifies the means In the case of torturing someone, you are inflicting only pain (which is not as bad as death) on someone who is probably guilty of a crime (which is not as bad as inflicting pain on someone who is complet…
We do torture people.
Where is the confusion?
Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes
#103Here's an idea. Now this might sound a bit crazy, but hear me out: How about working to prevent terrorism by not murdering innocent civilians in other countries and inciting massive hatred towards the US from those affected and their fellow countrymen? Can you imagine what would happen if another country was carrying out drone strikes in the US, with similar numbers of casualties?
Problem is, the USA is geared towards those sorts of aggressive methods because of the huge military infrastructure. The solution is to constantly cut the budget and make that aspect less influential.
When you have approximately 1/3 of the population being somewhat dependent on that stream of income, is it still feasible to "go back"?
Economically it's also far less risky to be the bully as long as you can. It would be great to see the US believe more in their productive nerds than in their bullies but at the moment they are playing it safe by somewhat (aside from populist immigration policies - probably not the best for innovation) betting on both of them.
Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes
#104My recollection is the CIA considers any military aged males in the area of a strike to be enemy combatants, which could be one cause for significantly different numbers. Here we go: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in... "It is also because Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a stri…
The scary part is that this line of thinking is not entirely untrue seeing as civilian casualties have a way of radicalizing young men in search of revenge. The REALLY scary part where America goes from being a misguided but well-intentioned brute to a completely evil, opportunistic warmonger is when you think about the data that the US intelligence and military complex has access to. Don't they know that their war i…
"The scary part is that this line of thinking is not entirely untrue seeing as civilian casualties have a way of radicalizing young men in search of revenge."
I do not expect to convince you to change your opinion, but I would like to let you know that this is not an opinion well verified by fact. It's a supposition made by chaps like Noam Chomsky without serious data behind it. It is also counter to what we know is true, which is that serious terrorism comes from religiously-motivated intellectuals, not the down-trodden poor incited to revenge.
Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In the case of torturing someone, you are inflicting only pain (which is not as bad as death) on someone who is probably guilty of a crime (which is not as bad as inflicting pain on someone who is completely innocent). I'm afraid it's more complicated than that. I get that you're trying to draw a contrast and use "their version of things", but "their version" is completely flawed to the point of misinformation. Tor…
But the thing is that all the things you wrote about torture apply to drone strikes as well, on a much wider scale. It's not just the explosions that matter. There's a) the constant fear people have that something, somewhere near, might just explode at any time, and b) the sound of drones flying overhead, all the time, pretty much 24h/day, that keeps people from sleeping and scares the cattle. There were some good ar…
No, I absolutely agree. There are many similarities - just the way the OP framed it (comparing the severity of an actual drone strike to the "just painful" torture) didn't quite work out.
Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes
#106Why these drone strikes are not considered acts of terrorism by international community? Are they in some way approved by the countries where they take place?
> Are they in some way approved by the countries where they take place?
Yes.
Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes
#107Its stuff like this that turns people into terrorist, also known as freedom fighters to others.
How many people would think twice about posting what you just did on the internet in light of the recent NSA revelations.
Who cares about people who think twice about expressing a perfectly valid sentiment in the face of illegal and immoral surveillance. They're the last people that should be considered, as they lack moral fiber and personal agency.
Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes
#108Growing up in the 70s, we looked at news from the Soviet Union and other authoritarian regimes as blatantly untrue propaganda. By comparison, our press and government practiced transparency -- they may have lied, but not on the scale the others did. I keep slipping back into believing the United States government believes in honesty and transparency, at least relatively more than other governments. In some areas it m…
Not only is it painful to watch this, it's even more painful to think about how far we've fallen, and how quickly. It wasn't that long ago where most mainstream US media sources could be trusted to provide insightful, fact-checked journalism.
> it's even more painful to think about how far we've fallen
This has been going on for a long time. The difference now is that it's far easier to discover these issues. What's happening now in government has always been happing. I'm sorry, but the number of civilian drone deaths, as bad as it is, is quite low when you look at the history of the US. This isn't support one way or the other mind you.
However, where you see how far we've fallen, I see how far we've come. It's still not right, but it's far, far better.
Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes
#109Here's an idea. Now this might sound a bit crazy, but hear me out: How about working to prevent terrorism by not murdering innocent civilians in other countries and inciting massive hatred towards the US from those affected and their fellow countrymen? Can you imagine what would happen if another country was carrying out drone strikes in the US, with similar numbers of casualties?
Do you think the Taliban shot a 14 year old girl in the head as a response to US drone strikes or because they're ideologically opposed to girls receiving an education?
And do you think the Taliban is alone in their ideological stances.
Thanks
Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes
#110Growing up in the 70s, we looked at news from the Soviet Union and other authoritarian regimes as blatantly untrue propaganda. By comparison, our press and government practiced transparency -- they may have lied, but not on the scale the others did. I keep slipping back into believing the United States government believes in honesty and transparency, at least relatively more than other governments. In some areas it m…
I don't remember anyone denying that drone strikes result in civilian causalities. But guess what we did before we had drone strikes? We did cruise missile attacks, targeted bombings, arming of rebels, and often full scale proxy wars. Drone strikes kill a lot fewer civilians than the alternatives we used during the Cold War.