College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead" • Hacker News Board

Re: College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead"

#21

Post by ajju » Thu, May 14, 2009, 3:18 PM UTC

hko wrote: post #19

ajju wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother really loved accounting as a subject in college. He found something else he likes more now, but if he had become an accountant, I don't think he would have felt his job was like prison. Just because something might feel like prison to you, does not mean it feels the same way to everyone.

He wasn't saying college felt like prison, just that it was a worse financial deal.

I am responding to edw519 who, as far as I can tell, is implying that having an accounting job is like prison, not the guy quoted in the article.

Re: College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead"

#22

Post by rdj » Thu, May 14, 2009, 3:20 PM UTC

phn1x wrote: post #13

rdj wrote: post #9

Yes, he's whining. But the undertone seems to be that he is crushed by debt to the point his life feels worthless. Therefore instead of spending those years only to accumulate debt, he is feeling he could have done just as well sitting in prison, for free. I think the bigger issue is that people assume going to college leads to getting a job which leads to making more money. In this case, the whiner is stuck because…

not for nothing, but if he's crushed by debt why is he only working a warehouse job. Deliver pizza or work a second job, use that extra income to rapidly pay down the debt.

Because he is applying formula #1: go to college -> get A job -> make money

Nowhere in there does it say he can get more than one job, start a side business, etc. He's stuck using a broken ideology, but that is apparently all he was taught during those years in college. Poor soul just doesn't know any better.

But you are leaning towards a more logical, reasoned formula. Formula #2.

Re: College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead"

#23

Post by marcusbooster » Thu, May 14, 2009, 3:20 PM UTC

phn1x wrote: post #13

rdj wrote: post #9

Yes, he's whining. But the undertone seems to be that he is crushed by debt to the point his life feels worthless. Therefore instead of spending those years only to accumulate debt, he is feeling he could have done just as well sitting in prison, for free. I think the bigger issue is that people assume going to college leads to getting a job which leads to making more money. In this case, the whiner is stuck because…

not for nothing, but if he's crushed by debt why is he only working a warehouse job. Deliver pizza or work a second job, use that extra income to rapidly pay down the debt.

Working at a warehouse and delivering pizza to pay off $35,200 would take years, and effectively make his degree worthless by the time he finished.

Declare bankruptcy, bootstrap your own biz, and wait out the next 7 years and he'll be good to go.

Re: College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead"

#24

Post by edw519 » Thu, May 14, 2009, 3:23 PM UTC

kyro wrote: post #17

edw519 wrote: post #5

"landing a job as an accountant" "I wish I had gone to prison" What's the difference?

What a stupid comment. Where I come from, accounting is a fairly semi-successful occupation. Lots of people I know in my community are accountants, who love it, and are leading really happy lives. Just because there are people who don't aspire to be independent, let's run the show, I am my own boss, entrepreneurs, and would opt out for something a bit safer and more stable, doesn't mean they're accepting a prison-lik…

Lighten up, kyro. It was a little witty, wasn't it?

Re: College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead"

#25

Post by rml » Thu, May 14, 2009, 3:30 PM UTC

I think we shouldn't underestimate the fact that kids are told over and over by teachers, guidance counselors, etc., "Go to college." These (well-meaning) people often don't realize that what worked for them twenty years ago might not be relevant anymore. In many parts of the U.S., there just isn't that much productive industry (of whatever kind) to support all these new graduates.

Re: College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead"

#26

Post by menloparkbum » Thu, May 14, 2009, 3:31 PM UTC

At the end of the article it reveals that the guy is 30. Unless he went to school very late, there are probably other reasons he's underemployed. It's hard to believe he couldn't have found an accounting job over the past 7 years.

Re: College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead"

#27

Post by gaius » Thu, May 14, 2009, 3:33 PM UTC

maukdaddy wrote: post #3

What a stupid article. What's with the sudden rash of "Don't Go to College" articles? It is a WELL proven fact that people with college degrees earn far more during their lifetimes than those without degrees. See the second page of this report for a great graph: http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf

Earned not will earn. And a degree in what?

Here in the UK the govt. has the goal of getting 50% of people to have some sort of degree. When a degree in media studies from an ex-poly is the norm, what then? The brutal truth is if you don't get into a Russell Group university then you would be better off going straight into the job market at 18. Don't shoot the messenger.

Re: College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead"

#28

Post by phn1x » Thu, May 14, 2009, 3:42 PM UTC

marcusbooster wrote: post #23

phn1x wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not for nothing, but if he's crushed by debt why is he only working a warehouse job. Deliver pizza or work a second job, use that extra income to rapidly pay down the debt.

Working at a warehouse and delivering pizza to pay off $35,200 would take years, and effectively make his degree worthless by the time he finished. Declare bankruptcy, bootstrap your own biz, and wait out the next 7 years and he'll be good to go.

It would not take years.

Practicing frugality and taking every last dollar would help the problem. He's got like 7k worth of credit card debt, which could be paid off in as little as 6 months if he really busted his ass delivering pizza at night. This is assuming he pulls in roughly 250 a week in tips and wages. and continues paying his 300 a month towards the credit card.

Continuing, once the CC is paid off he will take that pizza delivery money and the 300 he has been paying and "snowball" that into the pay off of student loans.

Listen to Dave ramsey's show and it's amazing some people pay upward to 45k in debt off in a matter of 18 months on a 24k salary. It's entirely possible if you have determination, but I don't think this guy does.

Re: College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead"

#29

Post by ShabbyDoo » Thu, May 14, 2009, 4:07 PM UTC

smanek wrote: post #14

maukdaddy wrote: post #3

What a stupid article. What's with the sudden rash of "Don't Go to College" articles? It is a WELL proven fact that people with college degrees earn far more during their lifetimes than those without degrees. See the second page of this report for a great graph: http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf

That isn't fair - there is selection bias. You have to compare people who were accepted to college and choose not to go to those who choose to go. Then, subtract the opportunity cost of the money the college goers paid (i.e., cost * expected ROI in some other endeavor) before comparing lifetime earnings. The studies I've seen to that for a lot of people (mediocre students, no-name school, etc) there is relatively lit…

The study is harder than that. You have to take a sampling of those accepted to college and force a percentage of them to skip out.

The "educated people make more money, therefore get an education" arguments annoy me. There's rarely a mention that causation is presumed.

Re: College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead"

#30

Post by ibsulon » Thu, May 14, 2009, 4:13 PM UTC

phn1x wrote: post #28

marcusbooster wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working at a warehouse and delivering pizza to pay off $35,200 would take years, and effectively make his degree worthless by the time he finished. Declare bankruptcy, bootstrap your own biz, and wait out the next 7 years and he'll be good to go.

It would not take years. Practicing frugality and taking every last dollar would help the problem. He's got like 7k worth of credit card debt, which could be paid off in as little as 6 months if he really busted his ass delivering pizza at night. This is assuming he pulls in roughly 250 a week in tips and wages. and continues paying his 300 a month towards the credit card. Continuing, once the CC is paid off he will…

Right now, it's even hard to get a pizza delivery job.

An acquaintance of mine has been searching for an engineering (not programming) job for months out of college and was excited to get a paper boy job. (He's okay financially due to an understanding fiance, but worried that he will never end up in the field.)