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Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes

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Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes

#11

Post by rdtsc »

bloaf wrote: post #9
TallGuyShort wrote: post #6

I doubt most of the other deaths were ever given much of a fair trial, so the implication of innocence should probably be applied a bit more broadly. You know, since we're defending democracy and all.

The military does not give trials to the people it kills. Drone strikes are a military action.

A part of drone strikes are done by CIA pilots at Langley. I think you are being generous with "military, does this and thus it is ok".

But no matter how generous you are, stretching "military" for CIA agents at Langely who kill kids herding goats by day and pick up their kids for soccer practice in the evening is a little too silly for my taste.

Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes

#12

Post by VladRussian2 »

bloaf wrote: post #9
TallGuyShort wrote: post #6

I doubt most of the other deaths were ever given much of a fair trial, so the implication of innocence should probably be applied a bit more broadly. You know, since we're defending democracy and all.

The military does not give trials to the people it kills. Drone strikes are a military action.

indiscriminant killing of civilians is a war crime, not a military action.

Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes

#13

Post by CoffeeDregs »

spodek wrote: post #3

Growing up in the 70s, we looked at news from the Soviet Union and other authoritarian regimes as blatantly untrue propaganda. By comparison, our press and government practiced transparency -- they may have lied, but not on the scale the others did. I keep slipping back into believing the United States government believes in honesty and transparency, at least relatively more than other governments. In some areas it m…

Agreed. For me, the most depressing part is that I, as a Republican [not a retard "movement" conservative, but a non-Progressive [yes, I believe in Climate Change]], voted for Obama and his message of transparency. I shouldn't have "believed" in a politician, but I did.

Crazy time: liberal friends are now defending the NSA's actions... Cats and dogs are living together in peace. WTF?

Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes

#15

Post by gruseom »

rdtsc wrote: post #7
spodek wrote: post #3

Growing up in the 70s, we looked at news from the Soviet Union and other authoritarian regimes as blatantly untrue propaganda. By comparison, our press and government practiced transparency -- they may have lied, but not on the scale the others did. I keep slipping back into believing the United States government believes in honesty and transparency, at least relatively more than other governments. In some areas it m…

I grew up in the 80s in the Soviet Union. And the thing is, we never believed their propaganda because it was too ridiculous. Everyone was laughing at the bullshit they heard on the radio and TV. True believers have disappeared probably the the mid 60s or so. Even defecting spies had stopped using "ideology" as the reason for their defection it was too unbelievable. Likewise might happen in US. It seems two things ha…

Good counter-propaganda after all is often not telling lies, just telling the dark truth the other side is trying to hide.

That's very well put.

Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes

#16

Post by TallGuyShort »

bloaf wrote: post #9
TallGuyShort wrote: post #6

I doubt most of the other deaths were ever given much of a fair trial, so the implication of innocence should probably be applied a bit more broadly. You know, since we're defending democracy and all.

The military does not give trials to the people it kills. Drone strikes are a military action.

Kind of like how congress doesn't need to approve things that are "armed conflicts" as opposed to "wars"? Calling killing civilians "military action" doesn't make it not killing civilians.

Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes

#17

Post by falk »

spodek wrote: post #3

Growing up in the 70s, we looked at news from the Soviet Union and other authoritarian regimes as blatantly untrue propaganda. By comparison, our press and government practiced transparency -- they may have lied, but not on the scale the others did. I keep slipping back into believing the United States government believes in honesty and transparency, at least relatively more than other governments. In some areas it m…

"By comparison, our press and government practiced transparency -- they may have lied, but not on the scale the others did."

"I keep slipping back into believing the United States government believes in honesty and transparency..."

The U.S. government never believed in honesty and transparency and you're lying to yourself thinking that they did. Our press has constantly manipulated us. Lies and secrets are just getting easier to expose.

I suggest you read the following:

- A People's History of the United States: 1492 to Present by Howard Zinn

- Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky

Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes

#18

Post by bloaf »

VladRussian2 wrote: post #12
bloaf wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military does not give trials to the people it kills. Drone strikes are a military action.

indiscriminant killing of civilians is a war crime, not a military action.

Show me a war in which no civilians died. It's easy to use weasel words like "indiscriminate," its hard to be responsible for people's lives.

"It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it." Robert E. Lee

Re: Leaked report shows high civilian death toll from CIA drone strikes

#20

Post by bloaf »

rdtsc wrote: post #11
bloaf wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military does not give trials to the people it kills. Drone strikes are a military action.

A part of drone strikes are done by CIA pilots at Langley. I think you are being generous with "military, does this and thus it is ok". But no matter how generous you are, stretching "military" for CIA agents at Langely who kill kids herding goats by day and pick up their kids for soccer practice in the evening is a little too silly for my taste.

The CIA explicitly has no law enforcement capability. Their killing therefore does not represent the enforcement of any law and as such does not require a trial. Their killing is therefore a military action.
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