In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life • Hacker News Board

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#91

Post by saosebastiao » Mon, Jul 22, 2013, 6:14 PM UTC

kyllo wrote: post #72

saosebastiao wrote: post #38

I deleted a previous comment because I didn't accurately convey my thoughts, but I'm hoping this is more accurate. My hometown is one of the cheapest, yet most uneducated and violent cities in all of California. There was a huge class divide amongst my peers, none of whom were rich; Some could afford to move elsewhere, and others couldn't. Of those that couldn't, I would say approximately 20-30% are in prison, and th…

Unfortunately, the big reason why Seattle is getting so expensive is just because there are lucrative jobs to be had here. Same reason why Silicon Valley is so expensive, but still on a smaller scale at this point. I think we're going to see more and more of this: the cities with a lot of jobs getting very expensive to live in, and the cities with fewer job opportunities staying flat or even getting cheaper--because…

But it doesn't have to be that way.

Seattle has a lot of high paying jobs, sure. But because Seattle artificially restricts housing supply, the high paying jobs bring in people like me that can absorb the cost, pushing out people that can't absorb the cost. Those people tend to work in jobs that keep other living costs low, meaning that if they continue to exist at all, they exist at higher prices...exacerbating the effect.

Seattle needs to stop focusing on raising pay. Their focus on wages for Airport workers and Fast Food workers completely misses the point: Those wages are already high from a US market standpoint...they are too low here because living costs are too high here. If you set a wage floor, the employers disappear. Alaska Airlines will move their hub to Portland or Vancouver, and all the Fast Food chains will cut their losses and close shop.

A focused effort on destroying barriers to new housing development effectively reduces the cost of living and increases living standards for everybody, without pricing out the lower-wage employment.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#92

Post by narrowingorbits » Mon, Jul 22, 2013, 6:15 PM UTC

ambiate wrote: post #54

jurassic wrote: post #21

In the white trash southern town where I grew up being a teacher at $35k/yr is considered one of the better jobs available. Military service is the best option for young men who want to provide a living wage to their families, especially since no education is required. A few dozen doctors and dentists and veterinarians make bank and live like kings (not really joking... think giant sailboats docked at their beach man…

Growing up in Hattiesburg, MS, innovation was stagnant. There were no technology related jobs other than Tech Support at Comcast(who I regarded as pure evil at the time). People do not want to leave Hattiesburg. It is completely foreign to them. They want to marry young, have children, and stay within a few blocks of their family. Move to California? You're going to fall into the ocean. Move to New York? Too much cit…

This attitude--which I more often than not share with you--suffers strongly of confirmation bias and a lack of empathy. You, we, tend to believe that the priorities we've chosen are better than those of everyone else, and are obviously so. Pursuing knowledge, technology, wealth, is of course a higher aim than raising a family. It's obvious, right? But it's not. They choose "to follow the culture of the community" because the culture is important to them. Because, perhaps, success, to them is made up of different things than it is for us.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#93

Post by rdouble » Mon, Jul 22, 2013, 6:15 PM UTC

kyllo wrote: post #72

saosebastiao wrote: post #38

I deleted a previous comment because I didn't accurately convey my thoughts, but I'm hoping this is more accurate. My hometown is one of the cheapest, yet most uneducated and violent cities in all of California. There was a huge class divide amongst my peers, none of whom were rich; Some could afford to move elsewhere, and others couldn't. Of those that couldn't, I would say approximately 20-30% are in prison, and th…

Unfortunately, the big reason why Seattle is getting so expensive is just because there are lucrative jobs to be had here. Same reason why Silicon Valley is so expensive, but still on a smaller scale at this point. I think we're going to see more and more of this: the cities with a lot of jobs getting very expensive to live in, and the cities with fewer job opportunities staying flat or even getting cheaper--because…

I think it's more due to Seattle's geography and anti-growth patterns. Places like Houston have a lot of lucrative jobs and a lot of cheap housing.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#94

Post by rayiner » Mon, Jul 22, 2013, 6:15 PM UTC

Arjuna wrote: post #83

I was born and grew up in WV. As many of you know, it is a poor state. We grew up on powdered milk. Most of my ancestors either went into chemical production (a local term from where I grew up is the "Chemical Valley", although most of that production and associated jobs are gone now) or slipped into the mines to work black gold [1]. We didn't have a lot, and there was no way that we could afford a computer. However,…

> The rest is history. I know I'm discussing an "N=1" anecdote, but I've personally found that life is what you make it, no matter where you come from or your background.

So my dad grew up in a village (they didn't get electricity until the 1990's) in Bangladesh. He went to college and graduate school, eventually moved to the U.S., and ultimately my brother and I grew up solidly upper middle class. One thing he always told me is that he was never the hardest worker or the smartest person in his peer group, but was ultimately more successful than nearly everyone he thought was harder working and/or smarter. He said that what he had, in addition to being very smart and very hard working, was being very lucky.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#95

Post by ambiate » Mon, Jul 22, 2013, 6:16 PM UTC

nobodysfool wrote: post #80

ambiate wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in Hattiesburg, MS, innovation was stagnant. There were no technology related jobs other than Tech Support at Comcast(who I regarded as pure evil at the time). People do not want to leave Hattiesburg. It is completely foreign to them. They want to marry young, have children, and stay within a few blocks of their family. Move to California? You're going to fall into the ocean. Move to New York? Too much cit…

Why should you be sad about personal choices others make? Stop judging people, learn to accept them and you'll be a happier person. For those "masters" - they likely put a higher priority on family than on career, so the view that they 'did nothing with it' is idiotic. They just have different priorities than you.

I wrote up this large spill about this being their personal feelings, financially drowning and overdrafting $500 each month. Husbands being the sole income providers ranging from $18k-29k a year for 2-4 kids. Jobs going at a very fast pace and very often not returning for a long period of time.

It is much akin to building a home without a foundation. Reproducing without a security blanket for when times are harsh is an equation for depression. I agree, they have different priorities, but there is not one group (out of my 7) that is happy with their choice. They are riddled with embarrassment and guilt. You get to the gas pump with $1.50 to put in the tank... and have a clean consciousness that you were correct in prioritizing a large family over creating a foundation. Don't worry though, the doctors still write prescriptions of Oxycotin, Valiums, and a myriad of antidepressants to reinforce that they made the right choice! I judge them not, I relay their silent cries that they hide from the community, because they fear communal judgment. A far greater damnation than my single judgement in that type of atmosphere.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#96

Post by mercer » Mon, Jul 22, 2013, 6:26 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #68

I don't understand why people in terrible positions stay where they are. I realize it takes at least some money to move, you need a way to get where you're going and you need money when you get there to eat and have a place to stay, but previous generations were much more mobile than we are now. My grandparents constantly re-located to where the work was. They did construction so they'd move to where a big hurricane…

Could you show some evidence that previous generations were more mobile? I'm not disputing it, but I'm inclined to think we're not much more or less mobile than previous generations...

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#97

Post by jaehoony » Mon, Jul 22, 2013, 6:28 PM UTC

At least they are born in America, instead of some third world country. In the eyes of an immigrant like me, top 80% have no one else to blame but themselves.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#98

Post by stonemetal » Mon, Jul 22, 2013, 6:31 PM UTC

minimax wrote: post #16

tokenadult wrote: post #4

I think the article's headline point is true for me in one odd way. I grew up in suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, and by chance the school district where I grew up had mandatory foreign language instruction (German) for all elementary school pupils in grades four, five, and six. (One member of the district staff was a German refugee who came over to the United States after World War II. She set up German classes deli…

few Americans begin study of a second language before secondary school Are you sure about that? I grew up in Texas and I remember taking Spanish in elementary school.

It is all over the map, I know of at least one district in Texas that has an immersion program where 50% of your class time is in Spanish starting in kindergarten. I know of a (private) school where by 8th grade you have had 4 years Spanish and 4 years French. The public schools I went to had neither. The earliest you could take Spanish was sophomore year of high school, and at most you could take 2 years of it.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#99

Post by ambiate » Mon, Jul 22, 2013, 6:33 PM UTC

narrowingorbits wrote: post #92

ambiate wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in Hattiesburg, MS, innovation was stagnant. There were no technology related jobs other than Tech Support at Comcast(who I regarded as pure evil at the time). People do not want to leave Hattiesburg. It is completely foreign to them. They want to marry young, have children, and stay within a few blocks of their family. Move to California? You're going to fall into the ocean. Move to New York? Too much cit…

This attitude--which I more often than not share with you--suffers strongly of confirmation bias and a lack of empathy. You, we, tend to believe that the priorities we've chosen are better than those of everyone else, and are obviously so. Pursuing knowledge, technology, wealth, is of course a higher aim than raising a family. It's obvious, right? But it's not. They choose "to follow the culture of the community" bec…

I can really appreciate this opinion of my comment. It is truly genuine and a great analysis! There is much more truth to your words than I would like to admit in other facets of my life.

Their priority is indeed far from mine. Many times, I find it hard to empathize and easier to just point the finger at the obvious choices they have made.

Yet, there is a community type punishment and resentment for people who fall into these traps of life. Prioritize reproduction over stability. OK! Community rules: 1) Don't come to 'us' for handouts. 2) Don't get on welfare/medicaid because you dug yourself into a hole. 3) Don't fall into the great apathy device of drugs to help you forget.

If you break the rules, you will be shamed and feel guilty.

The glorious church folk at the Southern Baptist Church in Oak Grove began the silent treatment on my family due to my great grandmother utilizing the meals on wheels services in the area.

Poorness is not acceptable, in some of the poorest communities of the US. It is absolutely glorious.

There is just so much more than I could hope to explain in a comment. The racism, classism, politics, and circular ideologies that are passed down in those areas is a novel on its own.

You are correct. I pity their choice, and often feel my choices are superior. Yet, more often than not, they also pity their choices, and envy my choices.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#100

Post by Loughla » Mon, Jul 22, 2013, 6:38 PM UTC

fingerprinter wrote: post #66

I can't help but feel that this is about a couple of things: 1. education 2. income 3. influence I've travelled and lived all over the world. It always struck me odd that the poorer places in the world always seem to value religion over education (my perception), and it creates a nasty cycle where the majority of people don't/can't better themselves. I saw this first hand in the southern US where it was always God #1…

It isn't just God (in whatever form that takes). It can be family, it can be a job, it can be a farm. It doesn't have to be God.

I think the big take away is that education should be the number one priority. In my situation, my parents pushed either college/university or a trade school. The military wasn't an option (Father, dear, had a terrible time with Vietnam), and getting a job straight out of high school was out as well.

I genuinely believe that the attitude of --you'll go somewhere and study to do something, no matter what-- is what really counts in kids' lives.

Yes, it's much, much, much easier for the ones who have money and cultural capital; but it's the lessons of do anything with your life that seem to impact harder.