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Victory Lap for Ask Patents

joelonsoftware.com

41–50 of 155 posts

Re: Victory Lap for Ask Patents

#41
> An example might help. Imagine a simple application with these three claims:

> 1. A method of transportation

> 2. The method of transportation in claim 1, wherein there is an engine connected to wheels

> 3. The method of transportation in claim 2, wherein the engine runs on water

> Notice that claim 2 mentions claim 1, and narrows it... in other words, it claims a strict subset of things from claim 1.

> Now, suppose you invented the water-powered car. When you submit your patent, you might submit it this way even knowing that there’s prior art for “methods of transportation” and you can’t really claim all of them as your invention. The theory is that (a) hey, you might get lucky! and (b) even if you don’t get lucky and the first claim is rejected, the narrower claims will still stand.

I'm pretty sure this is not accurate. To my knowledge, the claims of a patent are considered only as a whole, not individually, so there should be no fear that this is somehow trying to patent "methods of transportation" broadly.

To make a broad patent claim, you can't have any narrowing claims on the same patent. Put another way, the maximum scope of claim by a particular patent is defined by the narrowest claim in the list.

Lawyers--correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Victory Lap for Ask Patents

#42
This is an awesome project. I've signed up and will see what I can do to help shoot down patents!

There is one true and important point in the article that isn't supported by the example given:

> This patent was, typically, obfuscated, and it used terms like “pixel density” for something that every other programmer in the world would call “resolution,” either accidentally (because Microsoft’s lawyers were not programmers), or, more likely, because the obfuscation makes it that much harder to search.

The patent uses "pixel density" to refer to the physical size of the pixels on a display. This is a fairly common term, with over five million results in a Google search. I've used the same phrase myself for over 10 years with the same meaning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_density

"Pixels per centimeter (ppcm), Pixels per inch (PPI) or pixel density is a measurement of the resolution of devices in various contexts: typically computer displays, image scanners, and digital camera image sensors."

Of course here we can see where the terms get a bit confusing: "...pixel density is a measurement of the resolution..."

But display resolution these days usually refers to the number of pixels, not their physical size:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution

"The display resolution of a digital television, computer monitor or display device is the number of distinct pixels in each dimension that can be displayed."

Advertisements and spec sheets almost always use "resolution" this way, for example the MacBook Pro specs on Apple's site:

"Supported resolutions: 1440 by 900 (native), 1280 by 800, 1152 by 720, ..."

Forgive me if this seems like nitpicking, and I completely agree with Joel's point here: patents often do use unusual terminology to obfuscate what they're talking about.

This just isn't a case of that. The patent is using the correct term, and it even does a very good job of explaining what it means:

> A particular characteristic of display components that may affect presentations rendered thereupon is the pixel density of the display component, such as a pixels-per-centimeter measurement. It may be appreciated that such characteristics may be independent of the size of the display component (e.g., two display components of the same size may present different pixel densities; conversely, two display components of different sizes may present the same pixel density) and/or the pixel dimensions of the display component (e.g., two display components displaying a presentation with a particular pixel dimensions may do so with different physical sizes).

Re: Victory Lap for Ask Patents

#43
> How cool would it be if Apple, Samsung, Oracle and Google got into a Mexican Standoff on Ask Patents? If each of those companies had three or four engineers dedicating a few hours every day to picking off their competitors’ applications, the number of granted patents to those companies would grind to a halt.

Wouldn't the result of this be that the company who finds out that they have the earliest implementation of the code in question be able to get the patent for it?

Re: Victory Lap for Ask Patents

#44
It would be cool if there was a way to penalize high number and high ratio of rejected patents from a single company. OTOH I don't see a way that allows genuine mistakes from small shops while being immune from big bad corps acting via shell companies.

Re: Victory Lap for Ask Patents

#45
How about just increasing the costs for filing and maintaining a patent as a quick way of getting rid of some of the really weak ones? Say double the fees and see what happens.

Re: Victory Lap for Ask Patents

#46

> An example might help. Imagine a simple application with these three claims: > 1. A method of transportation > 2. The method of transportation in claim 1, wherein there is an engine connected to wheels > 3. The method of transportation in claim 2, wherein the engine runs on water > Notice that claim 2 mentions claim 1, and narrows it... in other words, it claims a strict subset of things from claim 1. > Now, suppos…

Not a lawyer, but I'm pretty certain that you're wrong. There are 2 types of claims, dependent and independent. dependent are those that refer to a previous claim and expand on it, (2 and 3 above). Claim 1 above is independent. The dependent claims are taken together with those they reference, but the independent claims if accepted are taken independently.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claim_(patent)#Basic_types_and_...

Re: Victory Lap for Ask Patents

#47
An idea that might help in killing patents: Have one daily sticky post on HN (ala job post) with a short description of a pending patent and a link on where to post prior art. It is very likely some reader will be able to provide this prior art.

Re: Victory Lap for Ask Patents

#48
post #47

An idea that might help in killing patents: Have one daily sticky post on HN (ala job post) with a short description of a pending patent and a link on where to post prior art. It is very likely some reader will be able to provide this prior art.

Good idea. And this patent can be one that hasn't received any answers for sometime and is overly broad.

Re: Victory Lap for Ask Patents

#49
post #47

An idea that might help in killing patents: Have one daily sticky post on HN (ala job post) with a short description of a pending patent and a link on where to post prior art. It is very likely some reader will be able to provide this prior art.

At 40,000 software patents per year, it would require 110 posted patents per day to actually stop them, or a significant fraction of that to make a serious dent.

One a day would be less than a 1% reduction in software patents. We need to shut them ALL down.

Re: Victory Lap for Ask Patents

#50
post #45

How about just increasing the costs for filing and maintaining a patent as a quick way of getting rid of some of the really weak ones? Say double the fees and see what happens.

Doubling the fee would further disadvantage the little guys.

Maybe the fee should start low and then increase by some percentage with each new application you submit.

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