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Ubuntu Edge

indiegogo.com

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Re: Ubuntu Edge

#51

Post by bryanlarsen »

dkokelley wrote: post #30
ealexhudson wrote: post #2

I upvoted this because I think it's an interesting experiment. Attempting to raise $1M+ every day for a month, though, I think is insanely ambitious. Asking people for $830 for a device that they won't get for a year is asking a lot, particularly since the specs aren't worlds away from current phones (two years time, and probably $500 would get you a device with those specs, unlocked). Worse, I just don't even get th…

I'm wondering if the ambitious goal of $32M is part of their strategy. Given that a higher goal is less likely to be met, I (and others who might consider backing) may be willing to adjust our risk function for the $600-800 such that we are more likely to back the project. Assuming that after 30 days only $20M is raised, then the outcome is as follows: 1: Nobody is actually charged for supporting the project 2: Other…

I would have backed based on this theory if it was a Kickstarter project. Kickstarter uses Amazon and doesn't charge until the end of the drive. Indiegogo uses Paypal, and charges immediately, giving a refund if the drive fails. While both of these differences aren't quite showstoppers, they're enough that I didn't pull the trigger on something that seems highly unlikely to succeed. I wouldn't mind paying $600 for this thing if it actually happened, but I would mind having $600 sitting around in my rarely used paypal account.

Re: Ubuntu Edge

#52

Post by grey-area »

cs702 wrote: post #43

The $32 million fundraising goal might seem overly ambitious, but it's actually more realistic than it appears at first glance, because at $600+ per unit the campaign needs only around 50,000 buyers worldwide to be successful -- or a bit over 2% of Ubuntu's enthusiastic user base, which was estimated to be greater than 20 million in 2011.[1] PS. I just ordered one, as I LOVE the idea of an unlocked phone designed and…

I've ordered one too, because I really like the sound of a Phone OS based on Ubuntu, not controlled by the likes of Google and Apple, and with a UI based on HTML. The proposed UI and demo apps look nice, I like the idea of losing the chrome as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO7QbCqFY7Y

It's going up quite fast, from 167k to 198k as I finish writing this, but I'm not sure if they'll make their target, just because the phone and OS are such an unknown quantity. I hope they will - and if Pebble can raise $10 Million, then they do have a chance, even if it is a slim one.

Re: Ubuntu Edge

#53

Post by shmerl »

Apocryphon wrote: post #47
shmerl wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they just didn't find investors. Jolla managed to do it because they have expertise and accumulated knowledge in the field. Canonical don't have that.

Any idea how Firefox OS was able to do it? Maybe because Mozilla is more established as a corporation in addition to being a nonprofit?

I didn't follow Mozilla closely on this, but I'm not sure if they design their own hardware. As far as I know they are using existing one from partners (correct me if I'm wrong). I.e. they took a few shortcuts to make things easier for them.

Re: Ubuntu Edge

#54

Post by kenferry »

"Although our core business is software for PCs and the cloud, we know the phone industry pretty well too."

"We’ve scoured the research labs of the biggest companies and most exciting startups for the latest and greatest mobile technologies to specify the first-generation Edge."

Do the people involved actually have hardware experience? That's not clear to me, and the second passage gives the impression of treating a phone as a collection of parts.

32 mil is a pretty risky first project…

Re: Ubuntu Edge

#55

Post by kklimonda »

shmerl wrote: post #41
kklimonda wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe [1], but then Canonical is aiming at getting Ubuntu into as many phones as possible, and it working with the Android stack is helping in achieving this goal. [1] On the other hand what would be a benefit of investing into getting drivers work with glibc, other than running your classic Linux distribution?

On the other hand what would be a benefit of investing into getting drivers work with glibc To run without any translation layers and bionic quirks. That's the main benefit. When the system is using glibc (like Sailfish and Ubuntu do), and drivers aren't, the only way is to translate it like libhybris does. It's a crutch at best and not ideal. It can perform well, but it's still not direct.

What are the practical drawbacks of using libhybris? Have there been some benchmarks done yet?

Re: Ubuntu Edge

#56

Post by shmerl »

kklimonda wrote: post #55
shmerl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand what would be a benefit of investing into getting drivers work with glibc To run without any translation layers and bionic quirks. That's the main benefit. When the system is using glibc (like Sailfish and Ubuntu do), and drivers aren't, the only way is to translate it like libhybris does. It's a crutch at best and not ideal. It can perform well, but it's still not direct.

What are the practical drawbacks of using libhybris? Have there been some benchmarks done yet?

I guess Jolla engineers would know the most, since they are primarily developing it:

* http://mer-project.blogspot.se/2013/04/wayland-utilizing-and...

* http://mer-project.blogspot.se/2013/05/wayland-utilizing-and...

But I didn't see any comparative benchmarks published so far. Translation cost might be not critical (i.e. tolerable), but it's still a cost and native approach should be always better.

Re: Ubuntu Edge

#57

Post by RockyMcNuts »

rlpb wrote: post #42
RockyMcNuts wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gathering that the handset makers and carriers and VCs laughed them out of the office, so they had to go this route. I would have expected to read something like, the phone is an enhanced version of x/y/z with these features, we got a great deal from (manufacturer), but we need 50,000 pre-orders to proceed.

> I'm gathering that the handset makers and carriers and VCs laughed them out of the office, so they had to go this route. From the FAQ: "If we don’t reach our target then we will focus only on commercially available handsets and there will not be an Ubuntu Edge." I don't think this supports your assumption.

I think it means they'll do Cyanogenmod style distribution instead of partnering with a handset maker/carrier.

Re: Ubuntu Edge

#58

Post by achiang »

xanderstrike wrote: post #44
Zigurd wrote: post #26

I would like to like this, but there are some red flags: It seems like they are engineering their own high-end hardware. Are there really no off-the-shelf platforms for this? No ODMs from which they could order 10k units, including the GPU driver license? Supposing they could get 10k units for $500 each, that means they could ask for $1M or $2m and be far more certain of hitting their goal. Why not do that? It seems…

This was my thinking. The whole time through that video I was wondering why they don't just buy a couple thousand Nexus 4s to load up with their custom build and re-sell. If they're planning to put Ubuntu on other manufacturers hardware, the official Google supported phone sounds like a pretty good place to start, and the speed at which those phones sell would be a great way to test the interest in their new platform…

Reselling someone else's developer phone from last year isn't exactly the marketing message we're going for. Edge is meant to be a premium product, not just another "me too".

Unrelated: if you simply want to test drive Ubuntu for Phones, it's already been ported to 40+ platforms.

Re: Ubuntu Edge

#59

Post by nnash »

I really think they're overestimating who they perceive their target audience to be. 830USD is more than an unlocked iPhone 5...

Re: Ubuntu Edge

#60

Post by grey-area »

kenferry wrote: post #54

"Although our core business is software for PCs and the cloud, we know the phone industry pretty well too." "We’ve scoured the research labs of the biggest companies and most exciting startups for the latest and greatest mobile technologies to specify the first-generation Edge." Do the people involved actually have hardware experience? That's not clear to me, and the second passage gives the impression of treating a…

I imagine they'll contract out the manufacture - they'll be collaborating with a manufacturer who makes phones presumably - they say the manufacturer is in Taiwan, but don't specify who.

The features they list are pretty standard on a high-end smartphone for next year, though perhaps not usually seen together.

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