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In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

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Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#31

Post by rayiner »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #28
rayiner wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a concrete example of (4) in this context that doesn't reduce trivially to (3)?

Well, I can't actually produce a number for this, but how would you feel about a correlation between first digit of US zip code and incidence of Tay-Sachs disease? Note: Tay-Sachs is something that happens to Jews, and Jews are concentrated in New York. Does the zip code connection satisfy your demand of "in this context"?

My point is that "where you were born" is a broader term than "the zip code where you were born." Obviously your zip code doesn't cause anything. But your zip code determines things like what the schools are like in the area, what the income demographics are like in the area, etc. When people say "where you were born determines where you end up" they're referring to that larger definition of "where you were born" not literally your zip code. That's what makes many versions of (4) collapse into (3).

Though I think your Tay-Sachs example is one that arguably does not.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#32

Post by zwieback »

jurassic wrote: post #21

In the white trash southern town where I grew up being a teacher at $35k/yr is considered one of the better jobs available. Military service is the best option for young men who want to provide a living wage to their families, especially since no education is required. A few dozen doctors and dentists and veterinarians make bank and live like kings (not really joking... think giant sailboats docked at their beach man…

Do you go back to your home town and, if so, what reaction do you get from smart kids that decided to stay?

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#35

Post by wf »

twoodfin wrote: post #24
anishkothari wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for linking to the NYT article, much better than the Slate one. IMO access to efficient public transportation has an outsized impact on people's ability to move up the economic ladder.

How does that theory jibe with some of the best mobility results being concentrated in places like Nebraska, Kansas, Minnesota and North Texas?

I'm not an economist but I do wonder if the reasons some of those places have higher mobility is because the previous generation in those areas have relatively low income jobs (i.e. mostly agriculture) and many of the current generation have a "gotta get out of here" mentality leading them to better paying opportunities elsewhere. I know I felt that way living in the mid-west in early high school.

I'd like to see a map of how many of these income reporters moved away from their locales and to where and also what professions they picked up.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#37

Post by beat »

As someone born in the bottom fifth who worked up into the top fifth, a big part of it is actively escaping childhood culture and that culture's expectations. When I grew up, I didn't know anyone wealthy or successful - I met them when I was an adult. Good role models are critical for kids' sense of scope and possibility.

Then again, as a political liberal, I tend to say an un-liberal thing when talking about income distribution... income isn't distributed evenly, but neither is talent. Mediocre people don't advance society. They tend to stay where they started (which explains a lot of management mediocrity - some are born into positions of privilege, but lack the talent to do anything with it but maintain the status quo). The way to maximize success for society as a whole is to maximize the opportunity of its most talented members, by eliminating cultural and social barriers to success.

Re: In America, Where You're Born Is Correlated With How Far You'll Go In Life

#38

Post by saosebastiao »

I deleted a previous comment because I didn't accurately convey my thoughts, but I'm hoping this is more accurate.

My hometown is one of the cheapest, yet most uneducated and violent cities in all of California. There was a huge class divide amongst my peers, none of whom were rich; Some could afford to move elsewhere, and others couldn't. Of those that couldn't, I would say approximately 20-30% are in prison, and the rest are stuck in Of those who could move elsewhere (not rich, mind you, just well-to-do enough to move to a different city in CA, like say Sacramento or San Bernadino), most have decent middle class blue collar jobs (~$40k). About 10% of the group that was better off ended up going to college, and I would count myself amongst maybe 5 people (out of a class of ~400) that have truly jumped class barriers.

When you can only afford to live in one place, you are limited by the options of that one place. Even tiny increments in income/wealth open up exponentially greater opportunities, for the sole reason that they allow you to move elsewhere. For this reason, I concur 100% with Yglesias' theory: Housing regulation and laws, which have a disproportionate effect on housing affordability, are a huge impediment to class mobility.

Seattle, I hope you shape up before you turn into San Francisco. Thankfully, I can afford to live here, but my presence in Seattle is crowding out people that are exactly like me from 2-3 years ago. Accommodate them and build new housing, or you will cause their demise.

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