Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988) • Hacker News Board

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#51

Post by goodcanadian » Sun, Jul 21, 2013, 8:27 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #25

nick2 wrote: post #5

"Trained employees are quitting because they find they have to work like Westerners and get paid like East Europeans." That says it all. You always get what you pay for.

Then there is Alberta Canada I think Edmonton where fast food workers get paid $20/hour due to the oil boom in the area. But a small apartment rents for close to $2,000/month if you can find one.

I think you are thinking of Fort McMurray. There is such a labour shortage in the oilsands (and correspondingly high pay), that there is no one available to work fast food, build houses, or anything else really.

Of course, I have also seen very similar results in resort towns for slightly different reasons: only the rich can afford to live there, so there is no poor to work the low paid jobs.

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#52

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 21, 2013, 8:28 PM UTC

skylan_q wrote: post #19

IvyMike wrote: post #17

I'd be curious to see how things are today at McDonald's in the Yugosphere.

Excellent, actually. I was just speaking with someone yesterday about how McDonald's is executing a long-term strategy very effectively. They appeal to children without offending adults. The population in the region places a high emphasis on eating home-cooked meals and domestic cleanliness. They've managed to make a name for themselves without having too much negative stigma being attached to them for being "fast fo…

[deleted]

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#53

Post by refurb » Sun, Jul 21, 2013, 8:30 PM UTC

memla wrote: post #42

A monthly paycheck for these employees that were determined to quit was $170. In other words: if you worked at McDonald's, you couldn't afford to eat at McDonald's.

Why does that matter? I've heard that arguememt for other industries, that workers should be paid a wage that they can afford the product they are making. I've never understood it though.

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#54

Post by CWIZO » Sun, Jul 21, 2013, 8:42 PM UTC

bergerjac wrote: post #28

IvyMike wrote: post #17

I'd be curious to see how things are today at McDonald's in the Yugosphere.

A 'premium' chicken sandwich is over $4. I can buy a larger fresh-grilled chicken breast sandwich with sauces and veggies of my choosing for less than $3, so I haven't had a reason to go inside. Regarding the employees, the unemployment rate is relatively high, so there will always be some available. Also, the wage of a younger non-skilled employee is less than $2/hour. (If McD's pays more than that, I don't foresee…

Which country are you talking about? I know it's not Slovenia, that's why I'm curious :)

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#55

Post by CWIZO » Sun, Jul 21, 2013, 8:45 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #53

memla wrote: post #42

A monthly paycheck for these employees that were determined to quit was $170. In other words: if you worked at McDonald's, you couldn't afford to eat at McDonald's.

Why does that matter? I've heard that arguememt for other industries, that workers should be paid a wage that they can afford the product they are making. I've never understood it though.

That just can't work. Imagine every Ferrari worker being able to afford a Ferrari. What would that mean for a price of a Ferrari, eh? The price would have to go up, and then the wages, and then the prices and so on.

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#56

Post by memla » Sun, Jul 21, 2013, 8:58 PM UTC

CWIZO wrote: post #55

refurb wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does that matter? I've heard that arguememt for other industries, that workers should be paid a wage that they can afford the product they are making. I've never understood it though.

That just can't work. Imagine every Ferrari worker being able to afford a Ferrari. What would that mean for a price of a Ferrari, eh? The price would have to go up, and then the wages, and then the prices and so on.

My statement wasn't meant as a general argument, but was just referring to this specific case - namely, inexpensive fast food. In order for the comparison between American and Yugoslavian work ethic to hold, you'd have to lower the American salaries to the point where they cannot afford McDonald's food. Let's see how that impacts their productivity.

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#57

Post by jotm » Sun, Jul 21, 2013, 9:11 PM UTC

Vivtek wrote: post #29

skylan_q wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some disclosure: I've been born and raised in Canada and my parents are immigrants from the former Yugoslavia. I've taken many extended trips back home and I have to say that "working efficiently for only half of their eight-hour workday" is overstating their efficiency. Socialism destroyed work ethic in Yugoslavia amongst other things. The villagers and farmers were the only ones who had any work ethic left as they…

Well, to be fair, anywhere the Habsburgs ruled is like this because that's the way their empire worked. You could only get rich by exploiting others or engaging in corruption - or be born into it because your ancestors did that.

I think it was the communism - it was a really bad economic system that was so out of touch with the reality of human beings and the past thousand years that people had no other choice but to engage in corruption (bypassing the system).

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#58

Post by jotm » Sun, Jul 21, 2013, 9:14 PM UTC

ivanhoe wrote: post #39

Explanation is easy, but understandably it's very hard for an American to grasp such a concept of life. People in Yugoslavia didn't work a lot, it's true, but not because of some lazy Sloven mentality, but because they simply didn't have to. And it even didn't make much sense to work hard in socialism, because you could work a little or you could work a lot, at the end of the month you would still earn the same salar…

But it's the people who want more who drive progress. Which is why the thing collapsed - take away the desire of those few to be and do better, and the whole system stagnates rather quickly...

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#59

Post by Sandman » Sun, Jul 21, 2013, 9:24 PM UTC

Not directly related to the article, but it seems to me that a really big difference between McDonald's employees in the US and those in the countries of former Yugoslavia is that in the US, McD's employees are young people who either never went to college or who dropped out, or those who see it as a way to support themselves while they're in college (since I'm not from the US I might be wrong here, feel free to correct me). In the countries of former Yugoslavia (well, at least in my country) unemployment rate is so high that even having a college degree doesn't guarantee that you'll get a job. I have a friend who is a professor of history and geography, he's 31, and he makes a living flipping burgers at McDonald's. He simply couldn't get a job as a professor anywhere. He's not exactly thrilled with what he makes, but he doesn't have a lot of options.

Re: Yugoslavs Find No Paradise at McDonald's (1988)

#60

Post by mladenkovacevic » Sun, Jul 21, 2013, 9:26 PM UTC

mladenkovacevic wrote: post #50

A nice documentary about my former country. Created by Pan Am to entice tourists to visit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B6eBAuhvEY&feature=youtube_...

Also this is the Serbian version of a "hamburger". Quite frankly I'm surprised that McD's is still in business. http://s3.amazonaws.com/foodspotting-ec2/reviews/1075384/thu...