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'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

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Re: 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could it not have an impact on intellectual capacity? Good nutrition, stimulation, and education are all important during development. This things are all much easier to access when you have more money.

> Good nutrition, stimulation, and education are all important during development. But not so important that they would have a 40 point IQ difference. If it is, show me the studies confirming that.

I'm sorry, but you need to do the basic research yourself. It has been consistently shown in the science.

Here: http://www.nber.org/papers/w14599

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_poverty#Developed_countri...

Here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/13/poverty-impact...

I could go on for some time...

Re: 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

#122
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure growing up in poverty can negatively influence access to mentally stimulating things. Not saying that the number on the bank account directly influences IQ, but tackling poverty would probably have ripples in the school system too.

This is going in a bad direction for sure now, but here is this thing: Some people, regardless of race, have lower intellectual capacity. That is what IQ tests try to measure, but fail to do completely because a lot is still based on education and experience that is difficult to factor out of the tests. A greater number of those people that have less intellectual capacity are not going to be as financially successful…

What are you even talking about right now?

The facts are: poverty makes it difficult for children to get access to stimulating environments, diversity of experience, non-stressful living conditions, and good academics. All these factors combined result in lower intelligence as a whole. That is very well cited in the papers, of which plenty have been linked and I suggest you look at them.

So it follows that programs that attempt to provide and foster conditions that allow for an intelligent child to grow are beneficial. This can take many forms, educating poor mothers, better funding for schools, education about nutrition and stimulation, money for basic living necessities, etc.

I just find it strange that for all your posts you haven't cited a single article that supports your claims. It seems to be your own logical surmising.

Re: 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

#123
My old room mate did cocaine studies with pregnant mice. He'd inject pregnant mice with cocaine and then raise the mouse pups and place electrodes in on of the "pleasure centers" of their brains. He would then measure the curve of how hard the mice were willing to spin a wheel for a given amount of current into their brains.

The model was that mice willing to beat their bodies more for the same amount of stimulation were more susceptible to a wide range of addictions. He found that pups exposed to cocaine in utero did in fact as adults spin the wheel harder for a given amount of stimulation, indicating higher susceptibility to a wide range of addictions.

My old room mate would have really liked to perform the same study with nicotine, since many many more human mothers dose their fetuses with nicotine as compared to cocaine. For what the wild speculations of an experienced researcher are worth, he suspected that mouse pups exposed to nicotine would also be more susceptible to addiction (supposing he was actually measuring susceptibility to addiction).

However, politicians and lobbyists have made it much easier to get federal grant money for cocaine studies vs. nicotine studies, despite nicotine having a much larger impact on society.

On a side note: in 1999, 4.7% of US 8th graders were willing to admit to having used cocaine, so the test group appears to be below US averages for cocaine use, despite their mothers using cocaine. I imagine that being predicated upon having mothers caring enough to place their children in these studies, and mothers responsible enough to stay in contact with researchers, and the subjects knowing they were being studied, skewed the drug usage portion of the study. Nationally, (for those outside of medical trials) I can't imagine the cocaine use rate for those whose mothers used cocaine to be below the rate for those whose mothers did not use cocaine.

Re: 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

#124
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The studies have not proven that there is a level of alcohol consumption below which there are no negative effects, but they fail to demonstrate long-term negative effects from low levels of alcohol consumption. Now, absence of proof is not proof of absence, but in what other contexts do we tell people: the studies don't show harmful effects at low levels, but you shouldn't do it anyway because the studies haven't pr…

It could also be a matter of public health advocates being savvy about how their messages are received. If we say it's probably safe to drink d drinks per week, then some percentage p of the population will assume it's okay to drink x*d drinks per week and may harm their babies. Also, simple rules are easy to state and simple to follow. The words "never" and "always" are very clear and leave no room for misinterpreta…

Saying "never" without a reasonable basis is a great way to lose credibility.

Re: 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

#125
post #24
post #6

Hurt's study enrolled only full-term babies so the possible effects of prematurity did not skew the results. Doesn't this mean that their selection sample effectively excluded any babies that had a noticeable physical reaction (other than having cocaine in their system) to the effect of their mothers' cocaine use?

They wouldn't be able to tell which babies were premies because of the cocaine, and which were because of other factors. A study of only premies would be interesting, but might yield the same result as this study.

Highly unlikely. Prematurely born crack babies are often in very, very bad shape.

The rate of premature birth among all pregnant women is around 4.3% (that includes smokers and drug users so the rate amongst healthy non-smokers is even lower than that). Amongst crack cocaine users the number is between 17–27%. So the prematurity issue is pretty significant. You might even say dominant.

Re: 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

#126
post #2

tl;dr - "Poverty is a more powerful influence on the outcome of inner-city children than gestational exposure to cocaine."

*When not taking into account prematurely born children, which among crack users is 17–27% compared to between 3-4% for the population at large.

Re: 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

#127
post #107

I've read that it's notoriously difficult to measure the impact of crack on prenatal development because so many crack-smoking pregnant women also smoke cigarettes, and the latter is so harmful already that it's hard to isolate the effects of the former.

That doesn't make a lot of sense since there are plenty of pregnant tobacco smokers that don't smoke crack.

Re: 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

#128
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crack Cocaine and Cocaine are not quite the same thing. Cocaine is known and used in the US as well. Crack was a US ghetto phenomenon, it is not used as some code-word for blacks. The results are surprising in the sense that what was said, and generally believed even by professionals in the field, at the height of the issue was that it would be impossible for these children to develop at all. Poverty has a known affe…

Crack Cocaine and Cocaine are not quite the same thing. Do you have any links to support this? I had always heard that chemically, they are both "cocaine" and the "crack" preparation simply allows quicker intake and thus a faster high.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_cocaine

Crack is the freebase form of Cocaine. It is preferred for smoking (quicker intake ,less needed) because of the change in the evaporation point.

Oddly, Crack Cocaine is just the active ingredient (cocaine), powder cocaine is cocaine hydrochloride.

My original point is that no, calling it crack cocaine is not codeword for poor [insert racial slur for black people] doing stupid things, an assertion that the OP tried to make by implying bias in the article and saying the rest of the world just calls it cocaine.

Re: 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

#129
post #117
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the 110 "crack babies" followed for 25 years, only 12 finished college or were on track to finish college, while 2 were shot dead. So it's only 6 times more likely for inner city kids to graduate from college than to get shot to death?

If you're poor, and especially if you're poor and have the "wrong" skin color, people don't expect you to get a college degree, so people don't push you to succeed. It was always an unspoken assumption that I would graduate from college, and people around me set up my life that way. Yes, the homicide rate is high, but I find the low college graduation rate more disturbing. On a side note: shot, stabbed, or strangled…

Any kind of murder is terrible. 2/110 is an extremely high murder rate. I realise the sample is not representative, but still...

Re: 'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could it not have an impact on intellectual capacity? Good nutrition, stimulation, and education are all important during development. This things are all much easier to access when you have more money.

> Good nutrition, stimulation, and education are all important during development. But not so important that they would have a 40 point IQ difference. If it is, show me the studies confirming that.

If your nutrition is poor enough you will be dead. It is well established that dead people necessarily have low IQs. Q.E.D.
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