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Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

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Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#111

Post by Myrmornis »

tptacek wrote: post #70
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: It has been (correctly) pointed out downthread that I have helped hijacking a very personal post for political point scoring - which I think is fair. However we lack a decent history function in HN so I leave it here otherwise the thread will read strangely. Thank you - as a Brit I read this too. I cycled through emotions - fear and sympathy for the diagnosis, hope as some of our best professionals consider new…

The UK has notoriously poor cancer outcomes. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-sur...

Hi, I believe that's wrong. I don't know why there is conflict in the technical literature, but I believe the consensus is that US healthcare outcomes lag behind most industrialized nations, including the UK. See e.g.

http://politix.topix.com/homepage/7019-us-is-27th-in-the-wor...

and the paper from which the figure is taken

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleID=1710486

Those data show that the USA ranks far below the UK on Years of Life Lost due to several cancers. I don't see how that's consistent with your claim. [Edit: actually, YLL is an incidence statistic, whereas parent's claim is that survival statistics are higher in the US, which the sources I've found agree with.]

The Telegraph is a right-leaning paper and is well known to be anti-NHS. Please; being economically laissez-faire as people are on HN are is not incompatible with supporting state provision of healthcare, along with the other things a state provides. It's sad to see libertarians / laissez-faire economics people bashing the NHS by quoting stories cherry-picked by right wing media sources. It's just not something we need disagree about.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#112

Post by Myrmornis »

tptacek wrote: post #85
DanBC wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand we've done a lot since 2007, right? EDIT: specifically, "survival rate" is just "how many people lived for 5 years after diagnosis". Thus, you detect a lot of slow growing prostate cancer and your survival rates go up, even though nothing has been done to reduce the incidence of cancer, or stop any more people from dying of cancer. When you look at US cancer mortality rates they look pretty good, until…

Can you provide a link to a study that shows UK cancer outcomes exceeding those of US outcomes in populations under 65?

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleID=1710486

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#113

Post by FireBeyond »

fixxer wrote: post #110
GFischer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's put it this way: 34 k would pay for the original poster's trip to my country (Uruguay), the best treatment available, and he'd have money left over - heck, 34 k would probably pay the doctor's wages on that hospital for a year. There are very dodgy and shady costs with US healthcare. I have the very best healthcare available in my country (Hospital Británico). It costs U$ 150 per month. A kidney stone would pro…

I don't disagree. Tell me something: Suppose you go in to get your left kidney removed, but the doc removes the right one by accident. What are your options? Law suit? What would you expect to get in settlement?

I'd expect in most places you'd get damages, and most likely the costs for the ensuing transplant (after all, you were needing to remove the left kidney for a reason, so now you have no other option).

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#114

Post by joshlegs »

FireBeyond wrote: post #96
fixxer wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So long as you're not poor, health care in the US is good. If you live in a major city and are diligent about who takes care of you, it is great. I've had three MRIs. All were scheduled the same day they were prescribed. I've routinely scheduled appointments with renown specialists and waited less than 2 days to get in. My double hernia surgery was performed by the same guy who treats the Chicago Bears. My old chirop…

"So long as you're not poor..." I had a kidney stone a few weeks ago. All told, the bills for dealing with that hit $34,000. For a kidney stone. That's not about being poor or not, that's highway robbery.

woo! fellow kidney stone sufferer here. I had a 9mm stone i had to have busted up ~18 months ago (and a few 5mm ones i didnt). Ended up owing a few grand on it even with insurance. still paying it down (owe only like $400 on it now, thank God).

yes. health reform (and lots of others) is/are needed.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#115

Post by NoodleIncident »

Noxchi wrote: post #95
bencollier49 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Number 3, absolutely. That's true in the UK too. In fact, if AI consulted the patient, it would catch a lot of things which doctors miss, simply by asking enough pertinent questions. When I have challenged doctors about this, they tend to say "Ah, but you're focused on data, we focus on diagnosing the patient", which is basically gibberish.

http://en.akinator.com/ That web app can name any person you think of by asking 20 or so questions. Just imagine what you could do if you made that but for diseases.

That's exactly what Watson is doing these days, right?

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#116

Post by shinratdr »

Nobody is turning this into a political issue. This IS a political issue. The only people who argue otherwise are Americans that selfishly support the current system in their country.

Well bully for them. If they want people to stop "politicizing" issues that are entirely the result of the political game they play, then maybe they should stop being so selfish when a story like this comes up and some poor American has to pass around a hat so he can continue to live.

The minor inconvenience of ruining some feel-good story for you is nothing compared to the blind eye you choose to turn in regards to everyone out there who has the exact same problems but doesn't have HN to turn to to fund their treatment. One is barely an issue, the other is a travesty that you can help to change.

Expect this to come up every time until it's no longer needed.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#117

Post by moocowduckquack »

krrrh wrote: post #74
dantheman wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn lies and statistics - it's very difficult to compare countries on Infant Mortality because they have different definitions of alive. From wikipedia: The World Health Organization (WHO) defines a live birth as any born human being who demonstrates independent signs of life, including breathing, voluntary muscle movement, or heartbeat. Many countries, however, including certain European states and Japan, only coun…

In addition, if you limit the data to single child births, eliminating twins and other multiple births, the US actually ranks number one for child mortality. Multiple child births are inherently more risky, as are births to women over the age of 30. Due to wealth, cultural, and lifestyle factors the number of multiple-child pregnancies in the US is much much higher than in other countries. More American women choose…

I am not sure that suicide rates are particularly independent of health care provision, especially suicides in the elderly, which is where there has been a massive increase.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#118

Post by moocowduckquack »

rdouble wrote: post #71
raganwald wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single-payer or government provided healthcare? Pretty sure that no one would identify the government as the picture perfect example of efficiency. Plus, putting elected officials or their appointees in charge of handing out goods and services doesnt seem to be sustainable. It seems odd to me that so many Americans seem pessimistic about their own government. I could understand if the attitude was, "We could make uni…

It's because of "American Exceptionalism." Single payer health care was not invented in America, therefore it could not possibly work in America. Education is similar. There are always at least 20 countries ranked ahead of the USA in primary and secondary education. Yet none of the successful approaches used in those countries can even be experimented with in the USA, because they "would never work here." Things are…

Freedom at the point of delivery.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#119

Post by tptacek »

Myrmornis wrote: post #112
tptacek wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a link to a study that shows UK cancer outcomes exceeding those of US outcomes in populations under 65?

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleID=1710486

This appears to say that incidence of cancer is worse in the US, but that outcomes are better.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#120

Post by Myrmornis »

tptacek wrote: post #119
Myrmornis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleID=1710486

This appears to say that incidence of cancer is worse in the US, but that outcomes are better.

OK, I'm starting to think you're right about that. Here's another source that agrees with you.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=13497&page=3

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