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Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

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Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#21

Post by raganwald »

nwenzel wrote: post #11

Great story of compassion and triumph. So... How do we make it scale? Is it mandatory insurance? Insurance doesn't make everything affordable, but it probably wild have been helpful. Though maybe the co-pay would have been $50k. Universal tax-payer funded insurance? The term "tax payer" is interesting because politicians and pundits forget that we're all tax payers in one form or another. Granted some pay more, some…

Single-payer or government provided healthcare? Pretty sure that no one would identify the government as the picture perfect example of efficiency. Plus, putting elected officials or their appointees in charge of handing out goods and services doesnt seem to be sustainable.

It seems odd to me that so many Americans seem pessimistic about their own government. I could understand if the attitude was, "We could make universal, socialized healthcare work. We could make it cheaper than Canada's. We could make it better than Sweden's. We just don't want to for ideological reasons."

But how can it be that the attitude is, "It would never work here?" You're the greatest empire in the history of civilization. What is this word "can't" and why is it in your vocabulary?

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#23

Post by happy_dino »

nwenzel wrote: post #11

Great story of compassion and triumph. So... How do we make it scale? Is it mandatory insurance? Insurance doesn't make everything affordable, but it probably wild have been helpful. Though maybe the co-pay would have been $50k. Universal tax-payer funded insurance? The term "tax payer" is interesting because politicians and pundits forget that we're all tax payers in one form or another. Granted some pay more, some…

I still can't decide what's more embarrassing: That the US have a third-world health care system or that people act like it is a hard, unsolved issue to implement something better.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#24

Post by twstws »

nwenzel wrote: post #11

Great story of compassion and triumph. So... How do we make it scale? Is it mandatory insurance? Insurance doesn't make everything affordable, but it probably wild have been helpful. Though maybe the co-pay would have been $50k. Universal tax-payer funded insurance? The term "tax payer" is interesting because politicians and pundits forget that we're all tax payers in one form or another. Granted some pay more, some…

I can't understand how Americans, who have the least efficient, most expensive health care system in the world, are so quick to write off public healthcare. The idea that government healthcare is more wasteful than a private system is not supported by facts, but the theory is too hard to let go of.

Which is not to say there is a perfect solution. But just about any of the alternatives would be better than the US system.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#25

Post by dfc »

jaggederest wrote: post #16
dfc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly agree that the oncologists deserve a lot of praise/gratitude for their work. That gratitude is precisely the reason why I disagree with the latter half of your statement. I think it is unfair to to suggest that they would have accepted a monetary loss. Nobody visits an oncology specialist because life is wonderful. Every patient is somebody's mother, brother or spouse and every patient is facing an u…

Of course they do. But if he'd only raised $30k, they'd have gone "Welp, not enough, guess you're just going to have to die"? I seriously doubt it. You're going to serve the patients you can serve and get the recompense you can - people without insurance are going to bring some losses, but you don't just let them die.

" people without insurance are going to bring some losses, but you don't just let them die."

Are you aware of the health insurance debate/disaster in the US? How long can doctors operate at a loss?

I must say that you are very fortunate if you do not know someone who has died of cancer and was unable to see/pay every specialist they could fit in to their final months days. People die of cancer all the time wishing they had the money to see the ______ oncology specialist.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#26

Post by twstws »

WasimBhai wrote: post #22

I have often wondered given the kind of cost involved in good health care in USA, along with college fees, why don't more Americans move to Europe for health care and education where it is probably free most of the time? P.S.: I am from Pakistan.

I suspect it is because those with the means to move are generally doing well enough to avoid the failings of the US system.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#27

Post by rjeaster »

raganwald wrote: post #21
nwenzel wrote: post #11

Great story of compassion and triumph. So... How do we make it scale? Is it mandatory insurance? Insurance doesn't make everything affordable, but it probably wild have been helpful. Though maybe the co-pay would have been $50k. Universal tax-payer funded insurance? The term "tax payer" is interesting because politicians and pundits forget that we're all tax payers in one form or another. Granted some pay more, some…

Single-payer or government provided healthcare? Pretty sure that no one would identify the government as the picture perfect example of efficiency. Plus, putting elected officials or their appointees in charge of handing out goods and services doesnt seem to be sustainable. It seems odd to me that so many Americans seem pessimistic about their own government. I could understand if the attitude was, "We could make uni…

It may be a vicious cycle at this point, Americans have no faith in their government, and their government proves itself unworthy of their faith.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#28

Post by Klinky »

twstws wrote: post #18

This is truly a wonderful story. But it makes you wonder how many others in a similar situation weren't so fortunate. I lived in the US for two years, and I never understood the aversion to government healthcare. The Canadian system is far from perfect, and I know there are failures. But it's still a lot better than soliciting for online charity on a case by case basis. I'm impressed and humbled that it worked in thi…

I am not sure this story is really about the need for socialized medicine. This is more about the need of specialist care and second opinions. If most doctors he saw determined that he most likely would not survive treatment, a socialized medical program may have very well denied payment for such treatments, and he would have had to resort to fundraising anyways.

Maybe if the system was flexible, nimble and could make judgement calls on the side of compassion, it might work, but this is difficult in both public or private sector institutions.

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#29

Post by Nursie »

raganwald wrote: post #21
nwenzel wrote: post #11

Great story of compassion and triumph. So... How do we make it scale? Is it mandatory insurance? Insurance doesn't make everything affordable, but it probably wild have been helpful. Though maybe the co-pay would have been $50k. Universal tax-payer funded insurance? The term "tax payer" is interesting because politicians and pundits forget that we're all tax payers in one form or another. Granted some pay more, some…

Single-payer or government provided healthcare? Pretty sure that no one would identify the government as the picture perfect example of efficiency. Plus, putting elected officials or their appointees in charge of handing out goods and services doesnt seem to be sustainable. It seems odd to me that so many Americans seem pessimistic about their own government. I could understand if the attitude was, "We could make uni…

Pretty sure us Brits still get a claim on the empire thing. Pretty sure...

Re: Hacker News Folks Get Long Overdue Thanks

#30

Post by jaggederest »

dfc wrote: post #25
jaggederest wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they do. But if he'd only raised $30k, they'd have gone "Welp, not enough, guess you're just going to have to die"? I seriously doubt it. You're going to serve the patients you can serve and get the recompense you can - people without insurance are going to bring some losses, but you don't just let them die.

" people without insurance are going to bring some losses, but you don't just let them die." Are you aware of the health insurance debate/disaster in the US? How long can doctors operate at a loss? I must say that you are very fortunate if you do not know someone who has died of cancer and was unable to see/pay every specialist they could fit in to their final months days. People die of cancer all the time wishing th…

I've actually worked with health insurance billing.

The way it works is that they bill ridiculously large amounts, which nobody without insurance can pay. They know this. The insurance companies negotiate it, other people pay what they can, and it all more or less works out in the end. I'd much, much prefer to see a single payer system.

Seeing every specialist is different than being in treatment with a doctor and having them cut you off because you can't pay. It's very rare I hear of a doctor going "well it's a shame you can't afford to pay for this surgery" - nearly always they do it, bill it, and accept the losses. Hospitals recover less than 20% from people without insurance.

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