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The Forbidden Island

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Re: The Forbidden Island

#241

Post by dgesang »

alan_cx wrote: post #149
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Childhood diseases * Stillborn children * Murder * Rape Good point. Since in joining modern society they'd be missing out on those things those things that no longer ever occur, a fair trade would be to introduce them to consumerism and all of the lovely, healthy, meaningful things that includes.

You make some pretty shitty and arrogant assumptions. Don't judge other cultures by your own horrible standards. And thank you for illustrating my point better than me.

Please look up "Sarcasm".

Re: The Forbidden Island

#242

Post by dgesang »

Anderkent wrote: post #91
alan_cx wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A. Yeah, except we never tell them the down side. We arrogantly assume our oh so clever technical ways are better. Sadly we are still not mature enough to decently make contact with such people.

You can't be serious. How many children are you willing to condemn to extremely premature death because of your noble savage illusion? Yes, our 'oh so clever technical ways' are not perfect. But they are so much better. Perhaps these people are just as happy as we are. Even so, their stillborn children are still dead. They almost certainly see more murder and rape. How can you condemn people to living like that, even…

Ofc stop using innocent children for your arguments.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#244

Post by rtpg »

bobbydavid wrote: post #236
homeomorphic wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know… suppose some highly advanced aliens with for the most part benign intent found us. Would you really like them to "stay the fuck away"? I, for one, would love for our technology to leapfrog ahead centuries, even though it would completely change our culture. The disease part can be handled today. We could go visit them in hazmat suits. And I know I'm being really generous when I'm comparing the modern wo…

one thing about the western world, and America especially: we have no cultural memory of what it feels like to have another culture impose their value system upon you. it's therefore easy to see other cultural views as falling into these categories: odd/silly, needlessly restrictive (possibly also immoral), or downright immoral [1]. that's a mental trap, though, much like believing yourself to live at the center of t…

>for instance: we have medicine! but we only value it because we fear death, etc.

I could understand that argument when considering prolonging of life when you're already really old and pretty much falling apart, but for completely preventable deaths?

I remember reading somewhere that a cult of death is considered a pretty universal value.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#246

Post by [deleted] »

homeomorphic wrote: post #71
geuis wrote: post #45

I'm pretty late to leaving a comment, so it won't get a lot of exposure. Let's just leave these people the fuck alone. What threat are they under? Curious assholes like us. There are probably less than 1000 people on that island, all descended from people tens of thousands of years ago. There are more people than that that visit an Apple store on a Tuesday before 2pm. Leave them alone. We don't need to assuage our 10…

I don't know… suppose some highly advanced aliens with for the most part benign intent found us. Would you really like them to "stay the fuck away"? I, for one, would love for our technology to leapfrog ahead centuries, even though it would completely change our culture. The disease part can be handled today. We could go visit them in hazmat suits. And I know I'm being really generous when I'm comparing the modern wo…

[deleted]

Re: The Forbidden Island

#247

Post by anigbrowl »

homeomorphic wrote: post #71
geuis wrote: post #45

I'm pretty late to leaving a comment, so it won't get a lot of exposure. Let's just leave these people the fuck alone. What threat are they under? Curious assholes like us. There are probably less than 1000 people on that island, all descended from people tens of thousands of years ago. There are more people than that that visit an Apple store on a Tuesday before 2pm. Leave them alone. We don't need to assuage our 10…

I don't know… suppose some highly advanced aliens with for the most part benign intent found us. Would you really like them to "stay the fuck away"? I, for one, would love for our technology to leapfrog ahead centuries, even though it would completely change our culture. The disease part can be handled today. We could go visit them in hazmat suits. And I know I'm being really generous when I'm comparing the modern wo…

That they violently defend themselves is of course a highly complicating factor.

I feel that this is a choice of theirs that should be respected rather than considered as an inconvenient obstacle. True, it's an ignorant choice, but nothing is preventing them taking a more curious stance.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#248

Post by Spooky23 »

precisioncoder wrote: post #137
geuis wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer 1: Yes, stay the fuck away. If Race XYZ has ability to monitor us without us knowing, thus not interfering with us, sure go ahead. Its not like there's much we could to stop them. But the moment they make their existence known, we're fucked. At that moment, we aren't the world-conquering successful species we love and proclaim to be. We're the little tribe living on the little island that's quietly being prote…

Modern medicine, physics, modern housing, sanitation, plumbing, etc, etc. They have a massive amount to gain. You can romanticize their situation, or we can decide to leave them there for other reasons but claiming they have nothing to gain is just plain wrong.

Fascinating, but why is it our business?

By that measure, should western governments be liberating various cultures who don't live in a manner consistent with western ideals?

Re: The Forbidden Island

#249

Post by LukeShu »

s_q_b wrote: post #239
rapind wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life's good when you're at the top of the totem poll. However, if the greener grass turns out to be a Mumbai slum or an e-waste site in China, or one of many other terrible but more realistic fates, maybe you'd pass on that opportunity... because, you know, a lot of people die there too.

I'd take a job in a factory churning out iPhones in China over dying a slow and painful death from gangrene that started as an ingrown toenail. People in the first world romanticize ancient ways of life, but the reality is that life without basic technology is nasty, brutish, and short. Another blind spot is that there are degrees of bad. Living in a village in northern Afghanistan is better in a lot of ways than liv…

> They do it because it's better than their previous existence.

Something to consider is that if some members of a society choose the new existence (provided by the new outsiders), then it can undermine the rest of the society.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#250

Post by baltcode »

geuis wrote: post #45

I'm pretty late to leaving a comment, so it won't get a lot of exposure. Let's just leave these people the fuck alone. What threat are they under? Curious assholes like us. There are probably less than 1000 people on that island, all descended from people tens of thousands of years ago. There are more people than that that visit an Apple store on a Tuesday before 2pm. Leave them alone. We don't need to assuage our 10…

Not disagreeing with you at all, but they are not completely isolated. They come and go off the island and have compulsory education like the rest of the United States. So it's not like they don't know about pollution or helicopters or the like.
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