I'd like to see some actual evidence for that 65,000 year old claim. It doesn't pass the paleoanthropological smell test.
The Forbidden Island
231–240 of 288 posts
Re: The Forbidden Island
#232Question: if we investigated these people, and found out that they had some 'bad' ritual practice like female circumcision or human sacrifice -- would we have a moral obligation to intervene and stop them? Or would we have a moral obligation to leave them the fuck alone?
Re: The Forbidden Island
#233Ironically, they could be the last ones standing if a disease sweeps the rest of the world.
On another note, it would be interesting to know what they eat, and to know the incidence of chronic disease in their culture. The results would likely be surprising: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price
Re: The Forbidden Island
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
As bad as the US is in those statistics, you'd expect this island to be 5 - 20 times worse looking at the range of third world countries on the list.
A lot of the infant mortality in the 3rd world is due to infectious disease or conditions like diarrhea. These are diseases common in crowded unsanitary places accompanied by poor nutrition. It would be mistaken, therefore, to assume that the same conditions would prevail in isolated places like North Sentinel Island, where the people are apparently well nourished. So the infant mortality rate there may be above the…
for all we know, they view infant mortality as a perfectly acceptable form of birth control. this would be an example of culture shock.
Re: The Forbidden Island
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
As bad as the US is in those statistics, you'd expect this island to be 5 - 20 times worse looking at the range of third world countries on the list.
A lot of the infant mortality in the 3rd world is due to infectious disease or conditions like diarrhea. These are diseases common in crowded unsanitary places accompanied by poor nutrition. It would be mistaken, therefore, to assume that the same conditions would prevail in isolated places like North Sentinel Island, where the people are apparently well nourished. So the infant mortality rate there may be above the…
Excellent point.
Is ~400 people a large enough population to support most diseases, or is it possible that they essentially (infectious) disease free by virtue of their tiny population?
I'm also curious what the genetics of a 400-person island look like. I always assumed that the minimum viable population was larger than that -- somewhere in the thousands -- but if the population estimate is correct, and has been for tens of thousands of years, then that's pretty concrete evidence that it's no more than 400.
Re: The Forbidden Island
#236I'm pretty late to leaving a comment, so it won't get a lot of exposure. Let's just leave these people the fuck alone. What threat are they under? Curious assholes like us. There are probably less than 1000 people on that island, all descended from people tens of thousands of years ago. There are more people than that that visit an Apple store on a Tuesday before 2pm. Leave them alone. We don't need to assuage our 10…
I don't know… suppose some highly advanced aliens with for the most part benign intent found us. Would you really like them to "stay the fuck away"? I, for one, would love for our technology to leapfrog ahead centuries, even though it would completely change our culture. The disease part can be handled today. We could go visit them in hazmat suits. And I know I'm being really generous when I'm comparing the modern wo…
one thing about the western world, and America especially: we have no cultural memory of what it feels like to have another culture impose their value system upon you.
it's therefore easy to see other cultural views as falling into these categories: odd/silly, needlessly restrictive (possibly also immoral), or downright immoral [1].
that's a mental trap, though, much like believing yourself to live at the center of the universe.
once you remove the "superior culture" argument, it becomes quite hard to formulating a reason to touch this island.
for instance: we have medicine! but we only value it because we fear death, etc.
[1] examples come to mind: some cultures believe using birth control is like murder (silly). some cultures believe a woman should not exposition her shoulders in public (no rights). some cultures believe infanticide is acceptable, others find it natural for men to have romantic relationships with boys (immoral). these are all examples from a western perspective, of course.
Re: The Forbidden Island
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Considering they have no marketable skills or education, how could their situation get any better? There are tons of poor people in the world who die from easily preventable diseases that you could help instead if that's your true motivation. They are a self-sufficient people that don't seem to be screwing up the world nearly as much as we are... why would we even assume we're superior? Maybe we're just jealous?
Personally I like refrigeration, modern medicine, transportation, and high technology. Maybe those aren't your thing, but I know if I was born into a society like that, I would spend my life trying to see what was beyond the water. Or die. Because, you know, a lot of them die.
Life's good when you're at the top of the totem poll.
However, if the greener grass turns out to be a Mumbai slum or an e-waste site in China, or one of many other terrible but more realistic fates, maybe you'd pass on that opportunity... because, you know, a lot of people die there too.
Re: The Forbidden Island
#238I'm pretty late to leaving a comment, so it won't get a lot of exposure. Let's just leave these people the fuck alone. What threat are they under? Curious assholes like us. There are probably less than 1000 people on that island, all descended from people tens of thousands of years ago. There are more people than that that visit an Apple store on a Tuesday before 2pm. Leave them alone. We don't need to assuage our 10…
I don't know… suppose some highly advanced aliens with for the most part benign intent found us. Would you really like them to "stay the fuck away"? I, for one, would love for our technology to leapfrog ahead centuries, even though it would completely change our culture. The disease part can be handled today. We could go visit them in hazmat suits. And I know I'm being really generous when I'm comparing the modern wo…
one thing about the western world, and America especially: we have no cultural memory of what it feels like to have another culture impose their value system upon you.
it's therefore easy to see other cultural views as falling into these categories: odd/silly, needlessly restrictive (possibly also immoral), or downright immoral [1].
that's a mental trap, though, much like believing yourself to live at the center of the universe.
once you remove the "superior culture" argument, it becomes quite hard to formulating a reason to touch this island.
for instance: we have medicine! but we only value it because we fear death, etc.
[1] examples come to mind: some cultures believe using birth control is like murder (silly). some cultures believe a woman should not exposition her shoulders in public (no rights). some cultures believe infanticide is acceptable, others find it natural for men to have romantic relationships with boys (immoral). these are all examples from a western perspective, of course.
Re: The Forbidden Island
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personally I like refrigeration, modern medicine, transportation, and high technology. Maybe those aren't your thing, but I know if I was born into a society like that, I would spend my life trying to see what was beyond the water. Or die. Because, you know, a lot of them die.
Life's good when you're at the top of the totem poll. However, if the greener grass turns out to be a Mumbai slum or an e-waste site in China, or one of many other terrible but more realistic fates, maybe you'd pass on that opportunity... because, you know, a lot of people die there too.
I'd take a job in a factory churning out iPhones in China over dying a slow and painful death from gangrene that started as an ingrown toenail.
People in the first world romanticize ancient ways of life, but the reality is that life without basic technology is nasty, brutish, and short.
Another blind spot is that there are degrees of bad. Living in a village in northern Afghanistan is better in a lot of ways than living in Darfur, which is better than Somalia. Honestly, people didn't choose to live in cities and work long hours in factories because we tricked them. They do it because it's better than their previous existence.
Re: The Forbidden Island
#240Well, ever since the Intergalactic foundation created a no-fly zone around our solar-system in order to let us remain uncontacted, we are in a similar boat. People outside there look fondly at our antiquated technology as the good old days.
O.O Is this from a book or something?