There are villains in this world. They used to hide beside the road and beat then rob travellers. Later they rode around in rusty pickups with ak's killing and robbing villagers. Their weapons change but their tactics don't. The measure of civilization is how we choose to deal with them. I'm afraid they'll always be with us. It all comes down to where our sense of justice meets our apathy.
Life for a startup on the receiving end of a patent law suit
21–30 of 105 posts
Re: Life for a startup on the receiving end of a patent law suit
#22The problem with a US based LLC is that you open up free access to thousands of patent trolls waiting to eat your hard earned money. This isn't a problem if you can afford a decent Lawyer for $5000-15000, but for businesses like mine, which are bootstrapped, it's totally unaffordable.
Well funded startups usually have a separate legal department to resolve these issues, but when you're running a startup totally from your own pocket, it becomes extremely hard and annoying. I was wondering for a solution until a very good friend of mine suggested me something nice.
If you set up a company somewhere in India (or some other popular, Start-up friendly developing country), these patent trolls have little access to you in terms of licensing, etc. Usually a patent troll will send you a legal letter threatening you about violation of some kind of absurd technology patent, etc. But, when you start up elsewhere, these become nulled[1]. Meaning, they can't touch you. Worse-case scenario, even if someone DID sue you, the lawyers are really cheap in such developing countries. We're talking about price ranges of $50-1000. And for $500 bucks you can get some really nice lawyers to get the job done.
There's also a LOT of start-up friendly exemptions for companies in such developing countries simply because they don't have enough of them and they want more people to start up.
So, even though these countries are often referred to as 'third worlds', they are really good places to start up. If you know of anyone wanting to start up from those countries, you should probably team up with them as their co-founder and that should be good enough.
Of course, all this assuming that you aren't interested in seeking funding and you want a bootstrapped start up. But then, if you are seeking funding, you'll probably have enough cash to afford a $5000 lawyer anyway.
One potential issue you may find running a startup from a developing country is the access to decent payment gateways. But then, if you don't mind sharing an extra 1% with the gateway provider, you can probably use someone like skrill.
Re: Life for a startup on the receiving end of a patent law suit
#23Excuse my ignorance, but have any companies succeeded by just replying "Go Get Fucked" to patent trolls?
Ignore them and they will only win by default.
Re: Life for a startup on the receiving end of a patent law suit
#24Re: Life for a startup on the receiving end of a patent law suit
#25Lately my group of friends have been discussing the most underhanded ways to get PAE's to bugger off. Nothing serious, but it's interesting to think about how one of these PAE lawyers would react if you told him his daughter's name and the school she goes to. It kinda surprises me that none of these extortion cases have escalated to that sort of thing. When someone puts 5-10 years of sweat, blood and tears into a com…
> how one of these PAE lawyers would react if you told him his daughter's name and the school she goes to They would make sure you're behind bars in no time.
"First, we kill all the lawyers" - Shakespeare, Henry VI
Re: Life for a startup on the receiving end of a patent law suit
#26Lately my group of friends have been discussing the most underhanded ways to get PAE's to bugger off. Nothing serious, but it's interesting to think about how one of these PAE lawyers would react if you told him his daughter's name and the school she goes to. It kinda surprises me that none of these extortion cases have escalated to that sort of thing. When someone puts 5-10 years of sweat, blood and tears into a com…
I've done similar things with both government officials (got a penalty reduced in half) as well as attorneys working on behalf of someone else. Once again you can't be threatening you have to be nice. Waste as much time as you legitimately can is the bottom line.
Re: Life for a startup on the receiving end of a patent law suit
#27Re: Life for a startup on the receiving end of a patent law suit
#28Does anyone sell patent-troll insurance?
Too easy to game. With the minimum legal cost of a successful defense being $200,000, what kind of monthly rate would cover that?
Insurance companies don't sweat big lawsuits and have all the resources to put up a fight and spread the risk.
It's only a matter of them viewing it as an opportunity. It will happen. And they will be able to effectively (at scale) jerk around the trolls till the cows come home.
The trolls will either settle for a nominal amount (think of it as a protection racket) or pick a different house to break into without an alarm.
Re: Life for a startup on the receiving end of a patent law suit
#29Does anyone sell patent-troll insurance?
Too easy to game. With the minimum legal cost of a successful defense being $200,000, what kind of monthly rate would cover that?
Other examples with high claim amounts, flood insurance, health care, etc.
It doesn't matter how high the minimum cost is, and you cant judge any kind of insurance based solely on that. The chance of it happening is just as important. Let's say 1% of all companies get sued for patent disputes every year (I don't know the stats on this, just an example), with an average defense costing $500 000. The insurance company also wants to make money, so let's have them charge 150% over cost.
$500k x 1.5 = $750k (amount of revenue per 100 customers)
$750k x 0.01= $7500 (cost per customer per year)
$7500 / 12 = $625 (cost per customer per month)
Now even that number isn't that high, and I assume 1% of companies getting hit with patent lawsuit per year is bigger than the real figures.
Re: Life for a startup on the receiving end of a patent law suit
#30Would it be safe to move the company outside of US where patent troll cannot reach in legal jurisdiction?