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How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

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Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#31

Post by beachstartup »

chollida1 wrote: post #20
coldcode wrote: post #15

If you really want to know if a (otherwise qualified) developer will fit into your team you should do contract-to-hire. Anything less is a guess. Every team is different, every need is different and every candidate's experience is different. Assuming you can ask a magical question or two and know is the realm of psychics.

> If you really want to know if a (otherwise qualified) developer will fit into your team you should do contract-to-hire The difficulty here is that no one who is even mediocre would ever do a "contract to hire". If they are good they have options and there just isn't any upside to doing a contract for hire when you can take another full time job. Contract for hire is a big red flag!

> The difficulty here is that no one who is even mediocre would ever do a "contract to hire".

this is absolutely not true. good people will simply demand a high hourly billing rate during the contract phase to compensate for the opportunity cost, which you have to be prepared to pay.

sure if you're dicking around with $20/hr "contracts" everyone decent will tell you to kick rocks.

have you ever worked with people who are used to getting paid $100+/hr? i.e. top people? it doesn't sound like it.

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#32

Post by nahname »

mtkd wrote: post #23

Why do they have to be? Just because a person isn't 100% 'team player' material doesn't mean they are not capable of massive step-change contributions to a team activity. If you hire all 'team players' or all PhDs or all men or all people who have been successful in their lives you are likely to have a team that has less capability than one that has some diversity. Unless you're just building a production line - in w…

If no one rocks the boat, it comfortably goes over the waterfall.

Hiring everyone with the same mindset is a great way to limit innovation and creativity. You also run the risk of being blindsided by upcoming challenges because everyone is so eagerly agreeing to the plan.

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#33

Post by chollida1 »

beachstartup wrote: post #31
chollida1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you really want to know if a (otherwise qualified) developer will fit into your team you should do contract-to-hire The difficulty here is that no one who is even mediocre would ever do a "contract to hire". If they are good they have options and there just isn't any upside to doing a contract for hire when you can take another full time job. Contract for hire is a big red flag!

> The difficulty here is that no one who is even mediocre would ever do a "contract to hire". this is absolutely not true. good people will simply demand a high hourly billing rate during the contract phase to compensate for the opportunity cost, which you have to be prepared to pay. sure if you're dicking around with $20/hr "contracts" everyone decent will tell you to kick rocks. have you ever worked with people who…

I think we're going to have to disagree here.

> have you ever worked with people who are used to getting paid $100+/hr? i.e. top people? it doesn't sound like it.

I saw this and wondered if you were trolling. It's certainly a rude and undeserved comment, but I'll be charitable and bite:)

My main point is that "good" developers, always have options.

My assumptions:

1) the developer wants full time work, otherwise they would just do contracting and not contract for hire.

2) jobs are plentiful for good developers.

Why would the developer assume all the risk with contract for hire, unless they had no other options? Why not just take the full time job instead?

Basically my point boils down to two points...

1) How would a company convince me to do contract for hire work when I can work somewhere else without that risk? What's my upside to doing this?

2) As long as most companies don't' do contract for hire, a company is putting themselves in a position that excludes most talented developers. ie if you aren't facebook, twitter, dropbox, etc. my contention is that the top developers will laugh at your contract to hire request.

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#34

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

chollida1 wrote: post #20
coldcode wrote: post #15

If you really want to know if a (otherwise qualified) developer will fit into your team you should do contract-to-hire. Anything less is a guess. Every team is different, every need is different and every candidate's experience is different. Assuming you can ask a magical question or two and know is the realm of psychics.

> If you really want to know if a (otherwise qualified) developer will fit into your team you should do contract-to-hire The difficulty here is that no one who is even mediocre would ever do a "contract to hire". If they are good they have options and there just isn't any upside to doing a contract for hire when you can take another full time job. Contract for hire is a big red flag!

I don't agree. This is an opportunity for both parties to check each other out, a top dev might want to check the employers claims, too. Too often they are just lying, especially if the market is drained.

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#35

Post by FajitaNachos »

Some of the best team players are those who would do anything, for anyone, at the drop of a hat. They are the people who show up early, bust their ass, never complain, and wouldn't think twice about lending a hand whenever you ask. I have no idea how to determine that from an interview.

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#36

Post by SomeRandomUser »

tome wrote: post #19
pstuart wrote: post #11

I think this is better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiter_Rule

I hear this a lot, especially with regard to dating advice, but I don't think I've ever eaten with someone who was rude to the waiter. Have I just been lucky?

Maybe you're rude too so you can't tell how the waiter should be treated. /joke

I've never eaten with someone who was rude to a waiter, but there are some things that you can learn from a person by looking at how he behaves with other people.

For example, if someone is putting food on your table, try to not be in his way and maybe tone down the conversation a little bit. Saying thanks is also a nice thing to do... looking at you, study team member.

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#37

Post by gambler »

mtkd wrote: post #23

Why do they have to be? Just because a person isn't 100% 'team player' material doesn't mean they are not capable of massive step-change contributions to a team activity. If you hire all 'team players' or all PhDs or all men or all people who have been successful in their lives you are likely to have a team that has less capability than one that has some diversity. Unless you're just building a production line - in w…

Great way to put it.

I think this is a part of a larger problem. A lot of IT interviews are based on a gigantic set of "ideal criteria" that no single person can realistically fulfill in its entirety. Because of that every hire is a compromise. Because of that who is hired in the end becomes a subject of subjective and irrational judgements.

In my opinion, having a realistic set of minimum requirements (which are actually needed to do the job) and looking for candidates to match every single one of them provides a much better and less biased approach. It can also help to design an interview process in a rational manner.

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#38

Post by auggierose »

aestra wrote: post #27
acuozzo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with rating a candidate on the basis of his personal/home projects is that it excludes potentially-excellent candidates who are __unable__ to work on anything at home due to, e.g., having several young children and half-dead parents to care for. (Also, don't try to retort with "so ask them about the personal/home projects they did before having kids", as that wouldn't be sufficient to cover the people who…

Or how about those potentially-excellent candidates who don't have children but just have a life? I love my job. I love writing code. I am passionate about it. The time I spend at work I mostly enjoy, but 40 hours a week is enough for me. I would rather spend the rest of my time with the people I love or on other ventures that don't involve sitting in front of a screen. If you don't want to hire me because my job isn…

Never seen that. All people I know who love programming even find time to do their own stuff on a 60 hour schedule.

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#39

Post by auggierose »

aestra wrote: post #27
acuozzo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with rating a candidate on the basis of his personal/home projects is that it excludes potentially-excellent candidates who are __unable__ to work on anything at home due to, e.g., having several young children and half-dead parents to care for. (Also, don't try to retort with "so ask them about the personal/home projects they did before having kids", as that wouldn't be sufficient to cover the people who…

Or how about those potentially-excellent candidates who don't have children but just have a life? I love my job. I love writing code. I am passionate about it. The time I spend at work I mostly enjoy, but 40 hours a week is enough for me. I would rather spend the rest of my time with the people I love or on other ventures that don't involve sitting in front of a screen. If you don't want to hire me because my job isn…

And just to avoid misunderstandings: I don't think that 60 hour schedules are good! Personally, I prefer a 25 hour week of coding only on my own stuff and 0 hours of coding for other people :-)

Re: How to Decide if a New Hire Will Be a Team Player in the Interview

#40

Post by BillyMaize »

chollida1 wrote: post #20
coldcode wrote: post #15

If you really want to know if a (otherwise qualified) developer will fit into your team you should do contract-to-hire. Anything less is a guess. Every team is different, every need is different and every candidate's experience is different. Assuming you can ask a magical question or two and know is the realm of psychics.

> If you really want to know if a (otherwise qualified) developer will fit into your team you should do contract-to-hire The difficulty here is that no one who is even mediocre would ever do a "contract to hire". If they are good they have options and there just isn't any upside to doing a contract for hire when you can take another full time job. Contract for hire is a big red flag!

Totally agree, I never even touch job openings that are looking for contract to hire. Some companies just want you for a short time and this is a way to get better talent without having to keep them, and I definitely don't want to relocate with the risk they won't need me in six months.
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