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The Forbidden Island

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Re: The Forbidden Island

#61

Post by danparsonson »

nitrogen wrote: post #44
unimpressive wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Edit: zoom out on the island.. and think about this: somewhere under the green down there there are living people like me and you that do not know what internet is... or cell phones.. or ipads.. cable TV... anything.. Or books, for that matter. Such things probably aren't as important if everybody you will ever have the chance to meet in your life numbers 400 people.

Isn't it just as unethical to withhold modern learning from these tribes as it would be to infect them with our modern diseases?

If they wanted it, certainly, but they attack any non-islanders who come near so it seems reasonable to assume they're not interested.

Besides, what do they need to know that they don't already after living on the same island for 65,000 years? I'm assuming you're thinking about modern medicine but I expect they have their own ways of dealing with illness, and increasing their life expectancy might actually make things worse - the island can presumably only support a limited number of people at any one time.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#62

Post by monsterix »

chrischen wrote: post #54
geuis wrote: post #45

I'm pretty late to leaving a comment, so it won't get a lot of exposure. Let's just leave these people the fuck alone. What threat are they under? Curious assholes like us. There are probably less than 1000 people on that island, all descended from people tens of thousands of years ago. There are more people than that that visit an Apple store on a Tuesday before 2pm. Leave them alone. We don't need to assuage our 10…

That is what they are doing. In fact, the article (or Wikipedia), says India has already made it illegal/discouraged to go near the island.

Yes and those islands are also protected by the Indian Navy quite diligently. It's important to prevent curious assholes from touching the island for two reasons:

1. These tribes have not developed medical immunity against the kind of diseases we're host to.

2. They're truly wild and curious like us too. Protecting the former quality needs a restraint from our side.

I've been to Andaman & Nicobar in 2004 and did feel a sense of excitement and curiosity when at the edge of our side of world. Check out this fifteen year old video on these tribesmen, their walking manners and the gap that we're talking about here [1].

Andamans have a tremendous diversity with its colonial history, modern day torture equipment at Cellular jail that the Brits used during their rule of the region, and exotic tribes like these. Apart from blue beaches and coral life that most tourists love to see.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPYwlXOTzQ

Re: The Forbidden Island

#63

Post by lotsofcows »

dirktheman wrote: post #15
terhechte wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always fly drones around. Edit: Non-Lethal, Non-Army drones. Just flying cameras to see what's happening there, or how they're living. Even better, really small cameras that look a bit like slow-moving birds.

I think it would freak them out. A metal bird, making strange humming noise, hovering over their heads... A couple of years ago I was driving on the I-95 from Las Vegas to Tonopah. Out of nowhere, a predator drone came up and flew next to our car for a good couple of hundred yards. A strange and somewhat frightening experience, even for someone who knows what drones are. Besides, the thick jungle canopy wouldn't allo…

The beauty of _not_ having science is that you can explain anything. Initially they'll be frightened and respond appropriately (withdrawal with cautious acts of violence, it seems), over time familiarity will breed contempt.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#64

Post by sandGorgon »

terhechte wrote: post #11
dirktheman wrote: post #9

Fascinating story, as well as the wikipedia article about uncontacted peoples. I really appreciate the Indian government for the exclusion zone, as contact with the rest of the world will probably wipe them away. From a anthropological standpoint, this is a nice paradox. I'm sure anthropologists would LOVE to study an uncontacted tribe. Particularly this tribe, as they appear to be of African descent yet are living i…

You can always fly drones around. Edit: Non-Lethal, Non-Army drones. Just flying cameras to see what's happening there, or how they're living. Even better, really small cameras that look a bit like slow-moving birds.

No you cannot. Not in the Andaman Islands. These islands are the base for the Indian Tri-Services Command [1] and rumor has it, for the Indian Nuclear ICBM command. In addition there are more rumors of serious electronic warfare going on there against the Chinese listening posts on Coco Island.

No way are there going to be drones around Andamans anytime soon.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andaman_and_Nicobar_Command

Re: The Forbidden Island

#65

Post by Kliment »

derleth wrote: post #30
dirktheman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they seem to be doing allright for the past 65,000 years... I'm the first to admit that I probably wouldn't last a week there. It seems quite romantic, living on a deserted island, without the antics of our society. But gathering food and water is hard, or even near impossible for us. These people however, seem to have found a way to survive. I'm assuming that, because they have lived in such a closed ecosystem…

> Well, they seem to be doing allright for the past 65,000 years... They've survived. Humans can survive terrible things. > I'm assuming that, because they have lived in such a closed ecosystem for so long, they have different diseases than we have. Not really, because their ecosystem is not closed. Birds and fish and so on still bring parasites, insects fly around, and malaria is malaria wherever you go. > I'm also…

Penicillin is made by mold. I'm not sure if molds count as plants, but it's definitely not a synthetic substance.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#66

Post by dirktheman »

chrischen wrote: post #58
dirktheman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would freak them out. A metal bird, making strange humming noise, hovering over their heads... A couple of years ago I was driving on the I-95 from Las Vegas to Tonopah. Out of nowhere, a predator drone came up and flew next to our car for a good couple of hundred yards. A strange and somewhat frightening experience, even for someone who knows what drones are. Besides, the thick jungle canopy wouldn't allo…

Haha. I think the army was doing target practice on you. They usually practice targeting the drones on unsuspecting cars in that area.

Pretty sure they were. I can only imagine the smile of the drone operator, seeing the faces of the freaked out tourist couple in their rental car... Can't say I wouldn't do the same!

Re: The Forbidden Island

#67

Post by rndmize »

ekianjo wrote: post #47
rndmize wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As compared to the Civilized Man, who has only solidly developed all the things you describe in the last couple hundred years and took thousands of years of war, famine, plague, slavery, and endless grinding inequality (still haven't quite fixed that one it seems) to get where we are now? Nothing quite like the modern man, where some tiny percentage of the world enjoys all its fruits and a few billion others try to l…

> a few billion others try to live on subsistence farming There has never been as few famines as in today's world. I'm not sure what you are referring to. And expect for a few countries, life expectancy around the world as well as life standards are increasing progressively. As posted several times on HN, the future is about abundance, not poverty. Even people in Africa nowadays have mobile phones everywhere. Take yo…

Subsistence farming isn't a reference to famines, its a reference to inequality. My point was that even today, the majority of the civilized world spends their time doing endless agricultural labor for minimal benefit, even though one would think that we would have a better alternative implemented by this point (especially since anthro studies have shown that by and large hunter/gatherer societies spend much less time obtaining food and water than farming ones do).

And my earlier point on famine was that it was a much bigger problem for heavy agricultural societies in centuries past than it was for tribal societies; a bad harvest one year for a civilization could have disastrous effects, while a tribe could generally pack up and move.

And finally, while I agree that the future is abundance, I'm not convinced it's going to be abundance for everyone. Up to this point, wealth in every single civilization I can think of has been heavily stratified, with the top few percent taking the majority of everything (doesn't matter if its nobles, priests, corporate leaders or politicians). I don't really see this changing given our current political/cultural/economic systems, unless basic income becomes a thing (and even then, the stratification will remain; it'll just become irrelevant on a long enough scale of technological improvement).

Re: The Forbidden Island

#68

Post by barking »

geuis wrote: post #45

I'm pretty late to leaving a comment, so it won't get a lot of exposure. Let's just leave these people the fuck alone. What threat are they under? Curious assholes like us. There are probably less than 1000 people on that island, all descended from people tens of thousands of years ago. There are more people than that that visit an Apple store on a Tuesday before 2pm. Leave them alone. We don't need to assuage our 10…

But what if they have a brutal dictator there? Or slavery? Or sexual abuse (like on pitcairn island)?

On balance though, I think all countries should leave one another alone. Foreign intervention frequently seems to do more harm than good.

These people though are now living in a constructed reality like 'The truman Show', we just haven't put the cameras in yet.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#69

Post by ddeck »

>It's estimated the the 28-square-mile island (slightly larger than Manhattan) is capable of supporting as many as 400 hunter-gatherers

Assuming this is accurate, I'm amazed that so much land is required to support a single individual. More so given it's an island with access to marine food sources.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#70

Post by gokhan »

On leaving / not leaving them alone:

"... They make it clear they want to be left alone."

"But could this be because they don’t see the benefits of ‘our’ way of life? If they knew, might they want to join us?"

"They won’t get the chance. In reality, the future offered by the settler society is to ‘join’ at the lowest possible level – often as beggars and prostitutes. History proves that tribal peoples end up in a far worse state after contact, often dead."

http://www.uncontactedtribes.org/articles/3109-questions-and...

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