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UK government invests in Sabre air-breathing rocket engine

bbc.co.uk

11–20 of 60 posts

Re: UK government invests in Sabre air-breathing rocket engine

#11
The Brits are good engineers, and, compared to American juggernaut companies, specially in the defense and aerospace area, they manage to make innovation with very little.

The US military spent millions all through the 1960's upto the late 1980's for a successful VTOL aircraft. Along came the brits with fractions of the budget with a great product the Harrier GR-1.

There are some great arguments here, specially the savings in weight from Oxygen by pja.

But I want to ask something different. Even if there is a slight chance for this idea to succeed shouldn't we/they invest in it anyway? Making breakthroughs in jet engine design takes years and extraordinary amount of effort and money. If the government doesn't take the risk, long term innovation would be very difficult. Plus even if it doesn't reach its intended goals many side technologies are generated even from a failed undertaking...

Re: UK government invests in Sabre air-breathing rocket engine

#12
I seem to remember Elon Musk getting a question about SABRE at a post-talk Q&A a while back (probably in the UK, perhaps an inauguration ceremony of some institution), but now I can't find it. He was skeptical and had some constructive things to say, but I'm not a physicist so unfortunately I can't remember the specifics. If anyone else finds it, kindly reply with a link!

EDIT: Found the video, but haven't yet found the specific time of the question. My connection is a bit slow, so jumping around in the stream isn't going so well. http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/videos/view/211

EDIT 2: Found it. Elon's reply is at 48:55.

Re: UK government invests in Sabre air-breathing rocket engine

#13
Whoa, this is really awesome!

For those that don't know, airbreathing engines are MUCH MORE efficient than conventional rocket engines.

Not only in terms of weight saved from not having to lug around too much O2, but also because of the way it works inherently.

I decided to make a space game once, with real world stuff on it, and settled for the Triton engine for my game spaceship, I did lots of research about rocket engines, and I was very sad when I compared them to airplane engines and it was clear how better they were, and yet useless in space.

But I never had this idea of mixing both... It sounds so awesome that I cannot describe it.

Also it allow some sci-fi stuff that is frequent but so far very broken (that is small fighter spaceship planes hybrids that can enter and leave atmosphere at will, that for now were usually handwaved by the author to explain that it has some weird super efficient rocket engine... with this tech that sort of stuff is less improbable)

Re: UK government invests in Sabre air-breathing rocket engine

#15
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have details on their web site: http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre_howworks.html My reading of their explanation is that in a full system they would "pre-burn" some of the hydrogen and oxygen also used to power the main rocket motor to power the cooling of the helium that then cools the intake air. [NB I have no idea whether that would actually work or not - just trying to interpret what their own explanatio…

Thanks for the link, this clears up a lot: http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/images/sabre/sabre_cycle_10... There is no nitrogen in the system (not as consumable, anyway). Shoddy BBC reporting, as usual. The heat exchangers use chilled hydrogen fuel they have to take up anyway, before it is burned in the rocket motor. That makes a ton more sense.

To be fair to the BBC, what they describe is the test setup that has actually run, not the design of the full engine - which they haven't built yet.

Re: UK government invests in Sabre air-breathing rocket engine

#16
post #11

The Brits are good engineers, and, compared to American juggernaut companies, specially in the defense and aerospace area, they manage to make innovation with very little. The US military spent millions all through the 1960's upto the late 1980's for a successful VTOL aircraft. Along came the brits with fractions of the budget with a great product the Harrier GR-1. There are some great arguments here, specially the s…

Also the TSR-2 - which was a fantastic aircraft design:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAC_TSR-2

"All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics. TSR-2 simply got the first three right."

Re: UK government invests in Sabre air-breathing rocket engine

#18

I am a bit skeptical of any technology that uses helium. We just don't have viable ways to obtain reliably enough of the stuff reliably.

It doesn't look like it consumes it. So we could probably build hundreds or thousands of these things without much trouble.

Re: UK government invests in Sabre air-breathing rocket engine

#19
post #12

I seem to remember Elon Musk getting a question about SABRE at a post-talk Q&A a while back (probably in the UK, perhaps an inauguration ceremony of some institution), but now I can't find it. He was skeptical and had some constructive things to say, but I'm not a physicist so unfortunately I can't remember the specifics. If anyone else finds it, kindly reply with a link! EDIT: Found the video, but haven't yet found…

Maybe he doesn't like it because it won't work on Mars? :-)
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