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Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

code.google.com

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Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#151

Post by [deleted] »

moxie wrote: post #122
enginous wrote: post #12

What key are you going to encrypt these passwords with? If you were to encrypt passwords in the cloud with a key that's stored on the device, you can't unlock the passwords on a different device (or the same device after flashing), which is the whole point of backing it up in the cloud. If you were to encrypt them with the user's Google Accounts password, the device would need to ask for that password on every startu…

One way to do it would be: 1) Your plaintext password is used to generate two derivative tokens. One for user authentication with Google, and one for encrypting data stored with Google. The authentication password token is PBKDF2(N, password) and the encryption token is PBKDF2(N-1, password). You give Google the authentication token on signup. They are not capable of deriving the encryption token from it, but the use…

[deleted]

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#152

Post by sneak »

jlgreco wrote: post #129
moxie wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way to do it would be: 1) Your plaintext password is used to generate two derivative tokens. One for user authentication with Google, and one for encrypting data stored with Google. The authentication password token is PBKDF2(N, password) and the encryption token is PBKDF2(N-1, password). You give Google the authentication token on signup. They are not capable of deriving the encryption token from it, but the use…

How do you handle password changes? Download the encrypted ECC private key, decrypt it with the old password, re-encrypt it with the new one, then upload it again? Is there an easier way?

This is not the normal Google Account password, this is specifically for a backup/restore process.

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#153

Post by randomchars »

brudgers wrote: post #54
Symmetry wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd imagine people getting new phones is the common use case.

If I buy a new Android phone, odds are it is not one which makes me a Google customer - i.e. Google gets none of the proceeds should I purchase a Samsung Galaxy. The only means by which Google profits is by monetizing data leaking from my device. And my WiFi password is something potentially monetizable. When choosing between ignorance and malice as motivations, it is perhaps proper to choose ignorance even with Goog…

> The only means by which Google profits is by monetizing data leaking from my device.

You have no idea what you're talking about. It directly profits from sales on the Play Store(apps, movies, TV shows, magazines, music) and advertisement clicks. They also benefit from building better user profiles, so they can better target advertisements.

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#155

Post by nwh »

yardie wrote: post #52
nwh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like hardware address whitelisting I wouldn't recommend that in any circumstance, it's completely false security really. MAC filtering is incredibly easy to bypass, all Malory has to do is wait for another device to connect and clone their hardware's address.

It's also a diagnosis nightmare. The ISPs in my country used to use WEP with MAC filtering with their wifi-routers. The password was mildly complex (16 characters) and on a label on the box. Most users never changed the password. So Joe Blow connects his laptop using the password on the sticker, and it doesn't work. Imagine the same problem for a few million users. It's false security because (especially for wifi) MA…

Heh, even the longest possibly WEP key can be broken in a few minutes with consumer hardware. At least ISPs in Australia use WPA as standard.

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#156

Post by packetslave »

antimagic wrote: post #88
brudgers wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horseshit. Setting up a password for an Android device only needs to be done once for each device->network pairing. The reuse of Wifi passwords across devices is an edge case given the predominate ownership pattern of Android devices - i.e. most people have a phone that runs Android and no other Android device. Google's scheme allows them to harvest the passwords to a vast number of wireless networks. Google has harv…

This, in addition to Google's demonstrated willingness to hand user data over to the US government means that the government (or a rogue Google employee, or a hacker that gets access to Google's database, or a rogue member of the US government, or ... you get the picture) can hit you with a LAN-based MotM attack pretty much whenever they wish. That means they can own your computer, because your Android phone connecte…

I realize you're just being a troll, but what you really mean by "Google's demonstrated willingness to hand user data" is "[...] comply with U.S. law and valid court orders while doing everything they can to push back on overly-broad fishing expeditions by the government."

Yes, I'm a Googler, and yes I'm tired of hearing this horseshit. Every single U.S. company complies with warrants, court orders, NSLs, and FISA demands. Every. Single. One. If you don't like that, work to change the bloody laws.

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#157

Post by cbr »

sneak wrote: post #152
jlgreco wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you handle password changes? Download the encrypted ECC private key, decrypt it with the old password, re-encrypt it with the new one, then upload it again? Is there an easier way?

This is not the normal Google Account password, this is specifically for a backup/restore process.

People have enough trouble remembering one password. Add another that is used only in very unusual circumstances and nearly no one will remember it.

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#158

Post by cbr »

Afforess wrote: post #131
moxie wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way to do it would be: 1) Your plaintext password is used to generate two derivative tokens. One for user authentication with Google, and one for encrypting data stored with Google. The authentication password token is PBKDF2(N, password) and the encryption token is PBKDF2(N-1, password). You give Google the authentication token on signup. They are not capable of deriving the encryption token from it, but the use…

Chances of me implementing this correctly: 0%. Chances of me implementing a boolean on/off switch for the plaintext passwords correctly: 99%

Difficulty of implementation isn't the issue here. This is an important feature of Android and if moxie's approach would make things better for users I think Google could get it right.

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#159

Post by leoedin »

samstave wrote: post #77
leoedin wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You give large corporations way too much credit. There's no evidence beyond your conspiracy theories that this is a feature designed for anything other than convenience (one which I and many others in the thread have found to be quite convenient). Not every feature in Android is designed to be monetised. Google develop Android with the intent that users will use their app store/click on Google provided ads. They can…

> You give large corporations way too much credit. There's no evidence beyond your conspiracy theories that this is a feature designed for anything other than convenience Yeah, excepting the whole NSA issue, the fact that Google was previously caught/accused of war-driving every wifi net they could see with their streetview cars etc. While the feature may be convenient, that does not preclude the worst case from also…

Google gathered wifi data to improve their location services. The capturing of unencrypted payload data was an unintended consequence of that due to poor software design. The initial wifi data collection was intentional and was designed to improve their location product (which it did - the Google Maps location service can be very speedy if it's near a wifi access point that google cars picked up - another feature likely to encourage people to use their product). The additional capture of packet data was unintentional. Numerous third parties have been involved in auditing google in their actions after it all came out and there's been no hint that they ever intended to do anything with the packet data they collected.

Facebook (and google) do "harvest" your data. They also mine it for relevent information from which they can show you adverts. There's no debate about that. It's not a conspiracy though - they state in their privacy policies that they'll use your data for targeted adverts. It's their revenue model!

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#160

Post by yardie »

nwh wrote: post #155
yardie wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a diagnosis nightmare. The ISPs in my country used to use WEP with MAC filtering with their wifi-routers. The password was mildly complex (16 characters) and on a label on the box. Most users never changed the password. So Joe Blow connects his laptop using the password on the sticker, and it doesn't work. Imagine the same problem for a few million users. It's false security because (especially for wifi) MA…

Heh, even the longest possibly WEP key can be broken in a few minutes with consumer hardware. At least ISPs in Australia use WPA as standard.

They use WPA2 now and from a few years ago. The cheap wifi-routers they sent out years ago didn't have the muscle to do WPA encryption.
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