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New online master's degree to train the data scientists of tomorrow

ischool.berkeley.edu

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Re: New online master's degree to train the data scientists of tomorrow

#21

Post by bernardom »

fixxer wrote: post #8
bsg75 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Professional" degrees seem to be the new thing in Uni-marketing. The assumption appears to be it would be corporate sponsored, thus "cost does not matter". They may need better data science behind their marketing.

I think these online technical degrees are just the next iteration beyond those one-year MS/MEng degrees that started popping up around 2000. This was back when "financial engineering" was the buzzword... that worked out well, didn't it? I'm sure some firms will really like these degrees, but if you're a company (like Google, for example) insisting on a specialized degree, why not aim for PhD level? The income differ…

I agree with regarding an M.Eng as a 5th year of University, though it's a year of actual major-related courses rather than Engineering core classes. That's in fact how I decided to do one: my professor pointed out that it was not one year on top of four, but one on top of one. I got to take another year of electives that were applicable to my career, rather than the core classes (chemistry, etc) that I was required to do during especially the first two years.

I do disagree with this snark, though:

> This was back when "financial engineering" was the buzzword... that worked out well, didn't it?

My M.Eng (Cornell ORIE) was not in FE, though my department offered it. Their (admittedly biased) response to this line of thinking: if we had more financial engineers, we would have had people who actually understand the instruments that were being traded.

No doubt the people who created exotic Mortgage-Backed Securities were FE types... if only Moody's and S&P employed some as well, perhaps they wouldn't have been rated AAA. Then again, I'm assuming incompetence rather than malice; the ratings agencies did have incentives to lie.

Re: New online master's degree to train the data scientists of tomorrow

#22

Post by fixxer »

bernardom wrote: post #21
fixxer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these online technical degrees are just the next iteration beyond those one-year MS/MEng degrees that started popping up around 2000. This was back when "financial engineering" was the buzzword... that worked out well, didn't it? I'm sure some firms will really like these degrees, but if you're a company (like Google, for example) insisting on a specialized degree, why not aim for PhD level? The income differ…

I agree with regarding an M.Eng as a 5th year of University, though it's a year of actual major-related courses rather than Engineering core classes. That's in fact how I decided to do one: my professor pointed out that it was not one year on top of four, but one on top of one. I got to take another year of electives that were applicable to my career, rather than the core classes (chemistry, etc) that I was required…

Cornell? What year?

EDIT: I did mine at CU back in 2003 in applied, not FE. I had many friends in FE, most all went into credit. I worked in trading for six years before quitting for a PhD. I do not place any value on an FE degree; looking back at the curriculum they offered, it is obvious that they were thinking the wrong way (the credit models they were teaching were complete shit and they had no concept of micro-structure; ironic given Maureen O'Hara teaches at the Johnson School).

EDIT2: The non-FE profs were and still are very awesome and remain good friends. Did you have Henderson?

Re: New online master's degree to train the data scientists of tomorrow

#23

Post by geebee »

pvnick wrote: post #2

While this program seems interesting, valuable, and a step in the right direction, the minute I read the $60,000 price tag I nearly choked on my gum and quickly pressed the back button. Coursera classes for me at least in the near future, hopefully within the next few years these degree programs will scale a little better and costs will plummet.

It sounds like a great degree program, and I'm encouraged to see it go on-line, but the $60K price tag seems over the top to me. Didn't Georgia Tech just announce an online MS for $7,000?

I'm just not sure this makes sense. While tuition has gone way up at Berkeley, most science and engineering degrees are considered academic, rather than professional degrees, so the fees are considerably lower.

http://registrar.berkeley.edu/Default.aspx?PageID=feesched.h...

So yeah, law or business school tuition+fees (professional program) are between $50-$60 a year, but academic programs (which includes engineering) is less than half that. A lot of this comes down to whether data science will really be a "professional" degree with high earnings.

Truth is, it might, I'm not ruling it out. I got an MS in Industrial Engineering from Berkeley after a math degree, hoping I could get something practical. I had some good experiences, but I also spent what was to me a depressing amount doing proofs about convex sets and stochastic processes. I probably shouldn't complain, that's what an academic degree program is. Maybe something like a professional program would have been much better for me.

Another question is whether holding this degree is valuable independent of what you learn. I know that may sound silly, but it makes a difference. Suppose you were allowed to study law courses on coursera. How much would it be worth it to get to say your degree was officially from Harvard and now qualify for the bar, even if all you did was quietly watch the videos and do the homework? More than $60k, I'd say.

Could the same be said for data science? You've watched the identical videos and done the homework... how much of a premium would it be worth to say you got an MS degree online from Berkeley? It would be worth something sure, but not as much as the law scenario. There's no "data science bar" that can prevent you from practicing, and there are so many different acceptable degree paths to becoming a data scientist. And while some may reasonably dispute this, I have found high tech to be more concerned with what you know than where you learned it.

All in all... sounds like a great degree, but 60K definitely gives me pause.

Re: New online master's degree to train the data scientists of tomorrow

#24

Post by lightcatcher »

raj564 wrote: post #16
hankcharles wrote: post #14

Given the success of well run hacker schools like Dev Bootcamp and Flatiron Schools, I am surprised no one has yet tried to apply that model to training data scientists. It seems like a sector similarly deprived of properly trained talent and also with a similar initial learning curve to develop the basic skill set.

"theres a bootcamp for that" http://zipfianacademy.com/

There's also http://insightdatascience.com/ . This is a little bit different; it's a program aimed at training postdocs in various fields to be data scientists.

Re: New online master's degree to train the data scientists of tomorrow

#26

Post by MWil »

raj564 wrote: post #16
hankcharles wrote: post #14

Given the success of well run hacker schools like Dev Bootcamp and Flatiron Schools, I am surprised no one has yet tried to apply that model to training data scientists. It seems like a sector similarly deprived of properly trained talent and also with a similar initial learning curve to develop the basic skill set.

"theres a bootcamp for that" http://zipfianacademy.com/

My old supervisor's son was just accepted to Zipfian. $14k sounds a lot better than $60k (I have no idea if he's paying sticker).

Re: New online master's degree to train the data scientists of tomorrow

#27

Post by achompas »

djvv wrote: post #25
727374 wrote: post #11

Alternatively: 1. Take Coursera's excellent Intro to Data Science for free 2. Spend time doing Kaggle competitions and learning along the way 3. Profit

You would be surprised how many people in the field have never heard of Kaggle.

Or how many in the field are extremely skeptical of any lessons an aspiring analyst could learn from it.

Re: New online master's degree to train the data scientists of tomorrow

#28

Post by mililani »

geebee wrote: post #23
pvnick wrote: post #2

While this program seems interesting, valuable, and a step in the right direction, the minute I read the $60,000 price tag I nearly choked on my gum and quickly pressed the back button. Coursera classes for me at least in the near future, hopefully within the next few years these degree programs will scale a little better and costs will plummet.

It sounds like a great degree program, and I'm encouraged to see it go on-line, but the $60K price tag seems over the top to me. Didn't Georgia Tech just announce an online MS for $7,000? I'm just not sure this makes sense. While tuition has gone way up at Berkeley, most science and engineering degrees are considered academic, rather than professional degrees, so the fees are considerably lower. http://registrar.berk…

Yeah, they did; however, the Udacity program doesn't begin to accept new outside students until next year, and I think the program is closer to $8000. Anyways, it's such a steal, and I think the MS in comp sci is more flexible than a niche degree like data science. You could teach comp sci at a 2 year college, for example; whereas, a data science masters will just get you a job in the industry.

Re: New online master's degree to train the data scientists of tomorrow

#29

Post by sker »

727374 wrote: post #11

Alternatively: 1. Take Coursera's excellent Intro to Data Science for free 2. Spend time doing Kaggle competitions and learning along the way 3. Profit

Thanks. I've been spending too much time on HackerRank lately. This Kaggle site will provide some new, interesting challenges.

Re: New online master's degree to train the data scientists of tomorrow

#30

Post by palderson »

hankcharles wrote: post #14

Given the success of well run hacker schools like Dev Bootcamp and Flatiron Schools, I am surprised no one has yet tried to apply that model to training data scientists. It seems like a sector similarly deprived of properly trained talent and also with a similar initial learning curve to develop the basic skill set.

They have - https://generalassemb.ly/education/data-science/new-york-cit...
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