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Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

code.google.com

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Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#11

Post by progx »

Kurts wrote: post #4

You can turn it off if you like: Settings > Privacy > Backup my data, backup application data, Wi-fi passwords, and other settings to Google servers. Every few months someone rediscovers that Google also syncs Wifi credentials between devices (perhaps when logging into a new device and finding it tethers itself nicely to the network on its own). It's a matter of convenience, Wifi passwords are only applicable at a ce…

But where is the problem that google encrypt them? To restore, i have to use my account and my password. And why can i not change the option, to backup the application data without WLAN passwords? For a billion dollar company, this should not be so complicated, or ?

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#12

Post by enginous »

What key are you going to encrypt these passwords with?

If you were to encrypt passwords in the cloud with a key that's stored on the device, you can't unlock the passwords on a different device (or the same device after flashing), which is the whole point of backing it up in the cloud.

If you were to encrypt them with the user's Google Accounts password, the device would need to ask for that password on every startup or store the GA password on the device at all times (the latter option is a far greater evil than the current "situation"). As long as Google is ever given the clear text password (i.e., before hashing), this would be open to interception by Google -- or infiltrators thereof.

If the GA password were to be used to authenticate in a way where Google doesn't get access to the clear text password (through digest-like authentication), a user wouldn't be able to access the backups after resetting her password. However, this method is not reliable if you don't trust Google (or its infiltrators), because Google provides the clients that would do the hashing before sending the password, so they could obtain the clear text password (by skipping the hash step, or by sending it through side channel) on any client they control such as HTTP login pages or mobile apps provided by Google.

Like all things security, it's a trade-off between security and convenience.

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#14

Post by Kurts »

progx wrote: post #11
Kurts wrote: post #4

You can turn it off if you like: Settings > Privacy > Backup my data, backup application data, Wi-fi passwords, and other settings to Google servers. Every few months someone rediscovers that Google also syncs Wifi credentials between devices (perhaps when logging into a new device and finding it tethers itself nicely to the network on its own). It's a matter of convenience, Wifi passwords are only applicable at a ce…

But where is the problem that google encrypt them? To restore, i have to use my account and my password. And why can i not change the option, to backup the application data without WLAN passwords? For a billion dollar company, this should not be so complicated, or ?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6057363

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#15

Post by jpalomaki »

I guess it would be fairly difficult to make this truly secure without making it too difficult to use. Simply encrypting the data with your Google account password does not do much good, since you are going to provide that password to Google and they could obviously use that to decrypt the data (should the government request it).

One option would be to use separate password for protecting the data, but that would not be very convenient for the user. Very easy to forget such password since you are not going to need it very often.

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#16

Post by Kurts »

mikhailt wrote: post #10
Kurts wrote: post #4

You can turn it off if you like: Settings > Privacy > Backup my data, backup application data, Wi-fi passwords, and other settings to Google servers. Every few months someone rediscovers that Google also syncs Wifi credentials between devices (perhaps when logging into a new device and finding it tethers itself nicely to the network on its own). It's a matter of convenience, Wifi passwords are only applicable at a ce…

Convenience isn't an excuse to not encrypt security data, it does not matter if it is a limited to a few areas where it could be exploited. If Google (any companies, including Apple) can not be trusted to protect such information, they should not be offering it in the first place. If it can be exploited, it should be protected as much as it can be. We all saw what happened with Google's StreetView cars capturing the…

It's more than "unlikely", it's ridiculous. It's the longest way around and possibly the stupidest route to get onto someone's Wifi network.

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#17

Post by jsnell »

foley wrote: post #13

And all for nothing - none of my Android devices have ever restored my wifi passwords, it is always a mission to find and input my password on a fresh phone.

FWIW, it has always worked for me. After remembering one WiFi password, so that I can get on a network and bootstrap...

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#18

Post by enneff »

enginous wrote: post #12

What key are you going to encrypt these passwords with? If you were to encrypt passwords in the cloud with a key that's stored on the device, you can't unlock the passwords on a different device (or the same device after flashing), which is the whole point of backing it up in the cloud. If you were to encrypt them with the user's Google Accounts password, the device would need to ask for that password on every startu…

For Chrome Sync data, you can specify a pass phrase that is not your Google Account password, nor is it tied to a specific device. It would be nice if you could specify a pass phrase to use when sending Android backup data.

Of course, many people would set the pass phrase when they set up their phone and promptly forget it, making their backup useless. (I've done forgotten enough crypto keys myself to know...)

Like you say, it's a tradeoff, but the Chrome team has been able to make it work with Chrome Sync. Of course, you only need to set up Sync once, and if you forget your Sync pass phrase you're not losing much. Perhaps the Android team decided that pass-phrase-encrypting the backups would cause more problems than it might solve.

nb: I am a Google employee, but I have no inside knowledge of any of these products nor the decision making processes of their teams.

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#19

Post by myko »

foley wrote: post #13

And all for nothing - none of my Android devices have ever restored my wifi passwords, it is always a mission to find and input my password on a fresh phone.

I've always had great experiences upgrading Android devices. Once I log in for the first time they sync wifi and applications pretty seamlessly.

My wife recently picked up an S4 and none of her things synchronized. I was pretty surprised at the time but thinking about it later I realized the AT&T clerk skipped the initial sign-in process. It looks like the option to sync old apps/passwords is only available upon launching a fresh device (which being a Nexus user no clerk ever bypasses setup on my devices).

Anyway, this might be why your phone isn't syncing? I'd be interested in seeing some option to force sync Android devices with backed up data at any time.

Re: Android saves wifi passwords in plaintext to the cloud

#20

Post by Kurts »

nwh wrote: post #8
Kurts wrote: post #4

You can turn it off if you like: Settings > Privacy > Backup my data, backup application data, Wi-fi passwords, and other settings to Google servers. Every few months someone rediscovers that Google also syncs Wifi credentials between devices (perhaps when logging into a new device and finding it tethers itself nicely to the network on its own). It's a matter of convenience, Wifi passwords are only applicable at a ce…

> like hardware address whitelisting I wouldn't recommend that in any circumstance, it's completely false security really. MAC filtering is incredibly easy to bypass, all Malory has to do is wait for another device to connect and clone their hardware's address.

Yeah but he doesn't have the password, unless somehow he hacked Google's servers for that specific one. It's the combination of both that makes it unlikely, there are far easier/better/more practical/likely ways of penetrating wifi networks.
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