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Quine Relay

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Re: Quine Relay

#171

Post by gambler »

eksith wrote: post #106
gambler wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Art that only exists for the sake of existing, without intent to express, explore, or otherwise stimulate human mind - art of that sort is garbage. There are plenty of people who vehemently defend that garbage, but it doesn't make it any less wasteful use of human time and attention. Personally, I will never respect it simply because there was a lot of effort involved.

http://www.lynetteabel.org/L-ABEL-Seminar-Appreciate.htm Eli Siegel explains in his great essay "The Serious Aspect of Snobbery": Snobbery is the unwillingness to like something, unless at the same time it makes one feel more important;... [It] is the inability or lack of desire to appreciate justly.

You using a quote of a quote to launch a personal attack, while explicitly doing the thing that you're accusing me of. That is, you assume that the motivation behind my comment is to feel superior to certain other people by excluding some things from the realm of "good art". Yet your comment explicitly divides people into "snobs" and "not snobs", makes a fairly obvious statement about superiority of one group and hints at the fact that you belong to the other group.

Re: Quine Relay

#172

Post by gambler »

breadbox wrote: post #68
gambler wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Art that only exists for the sake of existing, without intent to express, explore, or otherwise stimulate human mind - art of that sort is garbage. There are plenty of people who vehemently defend that garbage, but it doesn't make it any less wasteful use of human time and attention. Personally, I will never respect it simply because there was a lot of effort involved.

" I will never respect it simply because there was a lot of effort involved. " Nor will I, or much of anyone else, I imagine. I respect it because it stimulates my mind. My imagination is moved by it in much the same way that it's moved by holding an acorn in my hand while contemplating a fully grown oak tree. Or studying the math that causes z <- z^2 + C to describe a ridiculously intricate shape. Or implementing my…

Nor will I, or much of anyone else, I imagine.

Yet people gladly upvote stories about computers implemented insite Minecraft and life-size spaceships made out of Lego blocks. Are you saying it has nothing to do with the difficulty involved? I doubt this story would be equally well received if there was some easy way to achieve the same result. If you take difficulty of the task out of the equation, what will be left? How much of what's left is genuine creativity and skill, and how much is mere patience?

Re: Quine Relay

#173

Post by eksith »

gambler wrote: post #171
eksith wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.lynetteabel.org/L-ABEL-Seminar-Appreciate.htm Eli Siegel explains in his great essay "The Serious Aspect of Snobbery": Snobbery is the unwillingness to like something, unless at the same time it makes one feel more important;... [It] is the inability or lack of desire to appreciate justly.

You using a quote of a quote to launch a personal attack, while explicitly doing the thing that you're accusing me of. That is, you assume that the motivation behind my comment is to feel superior to certain other people by excluding some things from the realm of "good art". Yet your comment explicitly divides people into "snobs" and "not snobs", makes a fairly obvious statement about superiority of one group and hin…

  >...art of that sort is garbage. There are plenty of people 
  who vehemently defend that garbage, but it doesn't make 
  it any less wasteful use of human time and attention.
...is your opinion. Opinion that as downvoters have noted, is full of snobbery. Not even mildly vindicated snobbery that's tolerated on this forum like picking your religion (I.E. favorite IDE, programming language etc...) which someone could assert with reasonable confidence with anecdotes of personal experience at least; it was wholly devoid of intellectual merit... and was snobbery.

That's not a personal attack. I don't know you personally and nor was it an attack. I felt it was merely an observation. But If you took an observation as an attack, then doesn't that speak to the validity of the quote?

I don't appreciate a whole swath of what is considered "modern art" either (though I do like Dada, if anything for it's quirkiness that I find interesting). But never have I called someone else's creation of time and effort "garbage" purely due to my lack of appreciation.

Re: Quine Relay

#174

Post by candeira »

Rabidgremlin wrote: post #112

If anyone wants to give this a go. I have created a Vagrant config which installs the OS, tools and runs the chain of programs. You can find it here: https://github.com/rabidgremlin/vagrant-quine-relay

I installed it yesterday. It fails at the point of Jasmin:

jasmin QR.j QR.j:2: Warning - Syntax error.

^ QR.j:2: Error - Couldn't repair and continue parse.

^ QR.j: Found 2 errors

And then completely craps out at the badly generated Java. Any idea of what goes?

Re: Quine Relay

#175

Post by gambler »

eksith wrote: post #173
gambler wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You using a quote of a quote to launch a personal attack, while explicitly doing the thing that you're accusing me of. That is, you assume that the motivation behind my comment is to feel superior to certain other people by excluding some things from the realm of "good art". Yet your comment explicitly divides people into "snobs" and "not snobs", makes a fairly obvious statement about superiority of one group and hin…

>...art of that sort is garbage. There are plenty of people who vehemently defend that garbage, but it doesn't make it any less wasteful use of human time and attention. ...is your opinion. Opinion that as downvoters have noted, is full of snobbery. Not even mildly vindicated snobbery that's tolerated on this forum like picking your religion (I.E. favorite IDE, programming language etc...) which someone could assert…

it was wholly devoid of intellectual merit...

I think the notion that purpose and intent behind art is far more important than the amount of effort involved in its creation has considerable amount of intellectual merit. Even more so considering how unpopular it is. Whether people choose to read the whole comment, or prefer to see "bla, bla, bla, garbage!" is a different matter.

Re: Quine Relay

#176

Post by breadbox »

gambler wrote: post #172
breadbox wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I will never respect it simply because there was a lot of effort involved. " Nor will I, or much of anyone else, I imagine. I respect it because it stimulates my mind. My imagination is moved by it in much the same way that it's moved by holding an acorn in my hand while contemplating a fully grown oak tree. Or studying the math that causes z <- z^2 + C to describe a ridiculously intricate shape. Or implementing my…

Nor will I, or much of anyone else, I imagine. Yet people gladly upvote stories about computers implemented insite Minecraft and life-size spaceships made out of Lego blocks. Are you saying it has nothing to do with the difficulty involved? I doubt this story would be equally well received if there was some easy way to achieve the same result. If you take difficulty of the task out of the equation, what will be left?…

"Are you saying it has nothing to do with the difficulty involved?"

No, of course not. The "simply" was what I was disagreeing with.

Re: Quine Relay

#178

Post by eli_gottlieb »

toyg wrote: post #60
dragontamer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The symbol of note is not "The Star of David", but instead Ouroboros, the eternal snake... symbolized by a snake eating his own tail. I believe he chose the symbol Ouroboros to represent the "immortality through change" of the code. In one story... Ouroboros was an immortal snake who constantly shed his skin, and took on many forms. Similarly, this code constantly changes form, yet is immortal. While it changes form,…

The "Star of David", like many Jewish symbols, has long been associated with alchemy and magic arts (and other less savoury enterprises) in classic European cultures. See for example [1] from a basic google search. This is likely why it was used in the anime, probably just to avoid the usual boring pentagram. [1] http://www.truthperfected.com/2012/12/seal-of-solomon.html

Which means it gets shown in anime for pure Rule of Cool reasons, and then Japanese people have not the slightest idea that it's actually the flag-symbol of Jews.

It's not like I would know the standard symbol for Shintoism unless I googled it.

Re: Quine Relay

#179

Post by Tobu »

msutherl wrote: post #114
gambler wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Art that only exists for the sake of existing, without intent to express, explore, or otherwise stimulate human mind - art of that sort is garbage. There are plenty of people who vehemently defend that garbage, but it doesn't make it any less wasteful use of human time and attention. Personally, I will never respect it simply because there was a lot of effort involved.

Unlike the others, I completely agree. Art that does not "express, explore, or otherwise stimulate the human mind"[1] is the definition of boring. I would however claim that the vast majority of art does stimulate the mind, though it may not stimulate yours without some additional effort. Indeed just about anything in the world is capable of stimulating your mind if you look closely enough at it, to paraphrase John C…

John Cage? You were quoting Gustave Flaubert:

> Pour qu’une chose soit intéressante, il suffit de la regarder longtemps.

http://flaubert.univ-rouen.fr/correspondance/conard/outils/1...

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