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Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

m.guardian.co.uk

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Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#101

Post by igravious »

btbuildem wrote: post #14

"identify, remove from office and bring to justice those officials who have abused power" This, here, is the crux of the matter. Drag into the light the parasites that consume the living flesh of this society.

"Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman."

Could this be a website/forum? Wherein we compile the evidence on the people in abstentia because the regular system aint doing it.

I'm not saying mob rule. I'm just kind of saying let's identify the really bad apples and kind of do what Groklaw did for IBM v. SCO - except this would be global citizen's privacy expectations versus spooks.

Edit: or this: http://www.securityweek.com/19-groups-sue-nsa-over-data-coll... (But it needs to be global - as in, massive and mass surveillance by any state or non-state actor though now feasibly possibly must be well outside international norms and laws)

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#102

Post by davepage »

MisterWebz wrote: post #89
tokenadult wrote: post #65

It's always interesting to me that as a new statement from Snowden to the press comes out, most comments on Hacker News take him totally at his word, and assume that his interpretation of events and policy is by far the interpretation most likely to be true. Because I was already past Snowden's current age and current experience level in living in other countries by the time Snowden was born, I see a lot of holes and…

Doesn't Greenwald already have a copy of everything Snowden has? If so, then what's the harm in Snowden being "on the loose"?

No: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/13/reuters-...

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#103

Post by dasil003 »

BWStearns wrote: post #84
tokenadult wrote: post #65

It's always interesting to me that as a new statement from Snowden to the press comes out, most comments on Hacker News take him totally at his word, and assume that his interpretation of events and policy is by far the interpretation most likely to be true. Because I was already past Snowden's current age and current experience level in living in other countries by the time Snowden was born, I see a lot of holes and…

" I can be appalled by some of what I read about the NSA without agreeing that Snowden is taking the best approach to doing something about that" This. Most of the people I have discussed this issue with have failed to separate the data that was revealed with the manner in which it was. Thank you for doing so.

The problem is the manner is a distraction. You think Snowden did something wrong? Okay, well the number of people that are going to stick their neck out like Snowden did are astonishingly few, so for you to split hairs over how you think it should be done plays right into the hands of the powers that be who are desperate to talk about anything but the substance of what is going on behind closed doors.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#104

Post by alan_cx »

tokenadult wrote: post #65

It's always interesting to me that as a new statement from Snowden to the press comes out, most comments on Hacker News take him totally at his word, and assume that his interpretation of events and policy is by far the interpretation most likely to be true. Because I was already past Snowden's current age and current experience level in living in other countries by the time Snowden was born, I see a lot of holes and…

I fail to see why you find this so "interesting".

If Snowden lied or exaggerated, the USG would ensure that every media outlet shouted about if from the mountain tops until no one couldn't know. Snowden would be destroyed as a liar. If the USG lie or exaggerates, Snowden cannot ensure the same. Additionally, government is based on lies, lying is what government does. The ratio of power and information control is not exactly on Snowden's side. The consequences for Snowden if he were caught lying or massively exaggerating are dire. The consequences for the USG lying really minor, they lie all the time, we expect it. The for Snowden is massively less likely to be lying, since doing so would absolutely kill him off.

Additionally, we are not at the point where we have seen all the dirt the USG can dig up on him. Turns out, they cant find much at all. There for its reasonable to assume Snowden is clean. DIrt on the USG is so numerous, its so overwhelming that its essentially back ground noise.

That is why people prepared to give him the benefit of if the doubt. That is also why people are less likely to do the same with the USG, or any other government.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#105

Post by brown9-2 »

DigitalJack wrote: post #75
brown9-2 wrote: post #40

As Joshua Foust points out, Snowden gave some info to Der Spiegel that they chose not to publish which seems to conflict with some of the "no harm" statements here: SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers. Nor is it publishing the related internal code words. However, this does not apply to information about the general surveillance o…

He has asked the journalists to be rigorous in weighing the decision to publish what he gives them. I don't have a citation but it's in some of greenwalds recent posts.

That would seem to conflict with his statement that I have not provided any information that would harm our people - agent or not - and I have no intention to do so.

If Der Spiegel (or the Guardian, or the Washington Post) was less rigorous, then information could have been published that harmed "our people" or intelligence agents.

He is positioning himself as having carefully reviewed everything he has given out, but if he has given info to some media sources who themselves have been "rigorous" enough and realized the danger of publishing some of it, then the statement in this letter cannot also be true.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#106

Post by dram »

eli wrote: post #29
pvnick wrote: post #3

"Further, no intelligence service - not even our own - has the capacity to compromise the secrets I continue to protect. While it has not been reported in the media, one of my specializations was to teach our people at DIA how to keep such information from being compromised even in the highest threat counter-intelligence environments (i.e. China). You may rest easy knowing I cannot be coerced into revealing that info…

I think he comes off as naive and more than a little pompous, but I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. Either way, if he really wants the focus back on the documents, he should probably write fewer letters about his beliefs, his security, and his personal situation.

He was responding to a retired US Senator who wrote him an e-mail. You think it's pompous to respond to him?

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#107

Post by foobarbazqux »

bobo1357 wrote: post #100
foobarbazqux wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're free to do what you want as long as you're willing to accept the consequences. You're free to rob a bank if you think it's worth the potential jail time and harm to other people.

This is quite the straw man. I meant free in a legal sense.

It's exactly the point though. You are free to break laws, or at least you are free to try. You are not nearly so free to break laws once you are in prison.

I think what you're saying is that you cannot expect to break laws without there being consequences. Of course we agree about that. The point of civil disobedience is that you believe so strongly you are willing to pay the price.

Perhaps you believe it is morally wrong to break laws as a means of getting the courts to interpret the Constitution?

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#108

Post by wavefunction »

peterkelly wrote: post #26
sigzero wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden is FULL of crap.

Could you explain why?

I wouldn't hold your breath. sigzero is not a fan of Snowden, as can be deduced from his other posts on this subject.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#109

Post by stephengillie »

pvnick wrote: post #72
tokenadult wrote: post #65

It's always interesting to me that as a new statement from Snowden to the press comes out, most comments on Hacker News take him totally at his word, and assume that his interpretation of events and policy is by far the interpretation most likely to be true. Because I was already past Snowden's current age and current experience level in living in other countries by the time Snowden was born, I see a lot of holes and…

I have nothing to add, just wanted to thank you for joining in on the Restore the Fourth protests. We all had a lot of fun that day!

I wish Seattle's Restore the 4th rally had:

1. Been on 7/4 instead of 7/6

2. Not held at (confined to) Westlake Park, which has ultra-liberal activist hippies and homeless protesting every day.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#110

Post by lucisferre »

fixxer wrote: post #96
tokenadult wrote: post #65

It's always interesting to me that as a new statement from Snowden to the press comes out, most comments on Hacker News take him totally at his word, and assume that his interpretation of events and policy is by far the interpretation most likely to be true. Because I was already past Snowden's current age and current experience level in living in other countries by the time Snowden was born, I see a lot of holes and…

Some aspects of Snowden's story do NOT look like a thoughtful plan to defend freedom and fair play around the world, but rather a haphazard rash move by Snowden to see what he can get away with. Could you please qualify that statement with an example? The high degree of cooperation many countries appear to be giving the United States so far in efforts to have Snowden return to the United States for legal proceedings…

> Your theory assumes both rational and benevolent politicians.

This in particular seems highly unlikely.

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