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Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

m.guardian.co.uk

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Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#91

Post by bobo1357 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #81
bobo1357 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't the interpretation of our Constitution be left to the Supreme Court? I mean, the Constitution explicitly grants the Court those powers.

> Shouldn't the interpretation of our Constitution be left to the Supreme Court? No. > I mean, the Constitution explicitly grants the Court those powers. The Constitution defines the judicial power of the United States to include deciding certain classes of legal controversies, including those arising under the Constitution, and provides that the Supreme Court is the organ which executes that role in both an explicit…

Read Article III, Section 1.

"The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court."

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#92

Post by foobarbazqux »

bobo1357 wrote: post #54
pbreit wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replying to bobo: no. Anyone should be able to interpret the constitution as no person or group of people are infallible. It's obvious that SCOTUS opinions change over time, due to composition and prevailing attitudes.

So it's okay to pick and choose which texts to follow from our Constitution? The Constitution doesn't give Snowden the power to interpret it. It does however give that duty to our federal courts. Should we just ignore that part in our Constitution?

The only reason courts interpret the Constitution is because somebody brings forth a constitutional challenge. Often that discussion results from somebody breaking a law.

The point is if Congress passes an unjust law, a legitimate recourse is to force the issue by breaking it intentionally and asking a judge to decide.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#93

Post by thisisdallas »

tokenadult wrote: post #65

It's always interesting to me that as a new statement from Snowden to the press comes out, most comments on Hacker News take him totally at his word, and assume that his interpretation of events and policy is by far the interpretation most likely to be true. Because I was already past Snowden's current age and current experience level in living in other countries by the time Snowden was born, I see a lot of holes and…

I am genuinely curious, could you go into some detail about the holes you see in what he is saying?

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#94

Post by [deleted] »

tokenadult wrote: post #65

It's always interesting to me that as a new statement from Snowden to the press comes out, most comments on Hacker News take him totally at his word, and assume that his interpretation of events and policy is by far the interpretation most likely to be true. Because I was already past Snowden's current age and current experience level in living in other countries by the time Snowden was born, I see a lot of holes and…

[deleted]

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#95

Post by phaus »

lifeformed wrote: post #63
phaus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such training does not exist anywhere on this planet. Edit: I already mentioned SERE training in a higher level post. It's pretty intense, but still, the most valuable lesson you learn is that everyone will end up talking. I was simply commenting on the possibility of a person resisting torture. If that person has some sort of safety mechanism in place, the torturer might not be able to get the information he wants,…

The training is right here: 1) Write some software that destroys your data if you don't login every x hours. 2) Under duress, stall for x hours.

If they abduct and torture you immediately, the chances of you stalling for x hours is pretty much non-existent. Snowden is in Russia. Arguably, no nation on the planet is better at torturing people than they are, and unlike the U.S. Russia doesn't really give a shit if the rest of the world doesn't like their methods. His interrogation would likely take minutes, not hours.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#96

Post by fixxer »

tokenadult wrote: post #65

It's always interesting to me that as a new statement from Snowden to the press comes out, most comments on Hacker News take him totally at his word, and assume that his interpretation of events and policy is by far the interpretation most likely to be true. Because I was already past Snowden's current age and current experience level in living in other countries by the time Snowden was born, I see a lot of holes and…

Some aspects of Snowden's story do NOT look like a thoughtful plan to defend freedom and fair play around the world, but rather a haphazard rash move by Snowden to see what he can get away with.

Could you please qualify that statement with an example?

The high degree of cooperation many countries appear to be giving the United States so far in efforts to have Snowden return to the United States for legal proceedings suggests that quite a few experienced national leaders with very different constituencies to represent agree that there is more harm in Snowden being on the loose than in his standing trial to weigh his claims against United States law.

Your theory assumes both rational and benevolent politicians.

Respectfully, I think you are wrong; the US (our country) is an excellent bully and likes to threaten trade. Further, I look at the behaviors of those countries that have acted to halt transit (i.e. the recent Bolivian fiasco) as evidence of complicity with US espionage activities.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#97

Post by scrumper »

untog wrote: post #49
Demiurge wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, it's night and day. One is a clean usable site where I can clearly read a column of text for which this page exists. The other is a junked up ad/link/box mess and I have no idea what I'm looking at.

And one makes the Guardian considerably more money than the other. It's not a mystery.

While we're off topic, let's run with that thought. What does that mean for the mobile web when the majority of their page views come from mobile? HTML ad overlays on the m site? The same descent into usability hell that the desktop has suffered, only without the possibility of ad-blocking plugins for mobile browsers? Or maybe it's 10 views a month, then you must use their dedicated app? Perhaps it'll be subscription only, through walled gardens like Newsstand? (Maybe that's even a good thing: we'll be paying directly for the content, instead of having our eyeballs sold to advertisers).

People on this site are thinking about this stuff. Working on it. Some for evil, some for good. I'm curious what this'll all look like in a few years.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#98

Post by dasil003 »

tokenadult wrote: post #65

It's always interesting to me that as a new statement from Snowden to the press comes out, most comments on Hacker News take him totally at his word, and assume that his interpretation of events and policy is by far the interpretation most likely to be true. Because I was already past Snowden's current age and current experience level in living in other countries by the time Snowden was born, I see a lot of holes and…

I agree it would have been better for him to stay in the US and stand trial, however I can't fault him for being scared shitless of the US government apparatus, and that's not considering all the things he knows that you and I don't. Perhaps he had good reason to believe that he would have been railroaded by a secret court and imprisoned away for life with no access to lawyers and his story conveniently whitewashed away. It took incredible courage (certainly more than I would have) to do what he did, and I am incredibly thankful that someone did, so I can't fault him for not going the whole nine yards to martyrdom.

Listening to him speak, he obviously has very well-reasoned and logical positions which contrasts sharply with official response. And I don't place much weight on the opinions of foreign leaders whose hands are tied by political concerns.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#99

Post by dragonwriter »

bobo1357 wrote: post #91
dragonwriter wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shouldn't the interpretation of our Constitution be left to the Supreme Court? No. > I mean, the Constitution explicitly grants the Court those powers. The Constitution defines the judicial power of the United States to include deciding certain classes of legal controversies, including those arising under the Constitution, and provides that the Supreme Court is the organ which executes that role in both an explicit…

Read Article III, Section 1. "The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court."

That's not what is says. Particularly, that period you put in isn't where the sentence ends, the full sentence is:

"The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish."

Further, the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court is defined in Art. III, Sec. 2: "In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make."

The Exceptions Clause is significant.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#100

Post by bobo1357 »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #85
bobo1357 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you're free to express what you want out of the Constitution but you're not free to break laws as interpreted by our federal courts. Unless the Constitution is amended, shouldn't we be following the rule of law and let the Court interpret the Constitution?

You're free to do what you want as long as you're willing to accept the consequences. You're free to rob a bank if you think it's worth the potential jail time and harm to other people.

This is quite the straw man. I meant free in a legal sense.
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