The average paid time off in Germany is about 30 days, whereas it is about 12 days in the US. That's something to factor in as a difference. I would happily take the extra time off over the $.
Is 3 paid weeks of vacation really worth $14,000 to you?
Ask HN: Why are IT salaries so much lower in Europe than in the US?
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Re: Ask HN: Why are IT salaries so much lower in Europe than in the US?
#12The difference between the two salaries is less than the currency variance between EUR and USD in the last 18 months.
Re: Ask HN: Why are IT salaries so much lower in Europe than in the US?
#13The average paid time off in Germany is about 30 days, whereas it is about 12 days in the US. That's something to factor in as a difference. I would happily take the extra time off over the $.
Is 3 paid weeks of vacation really worth $14,000 to you?
18 days is more than 3.5 weeks of paid vacation. You also have to consider that the additional 14k will be taxed at a high marginal rate. You won't see 14k of that money. Less than 10k more likely (perhaps far less).
So the question should be "Would you trade less than 10k of after-tax income for 3.5 weeks of paid vacation?"
If my alternative is a paltry total of 12 paid vacation days per year? Definitely. I have a family that I want to enjoy life with. An 80k salary is more than enough to live comfortably in my neck of the woods.
In general, I've found that North American employers will give you a raise much faster than they'll allow you more paid time off.
Re: Ask HN: Why are IT salaries so much lower in Europe than in the US?
#14The average paid time off in Germany is about 30 days, whereas it is about 12 days in the US. That's something to factor in as a difference. I would happily take the extra time off over the $.
Is 3 paid weeks of vacation really worth $14,000 to you?
That's a good question. It might be.
When I started my first job (in the US) out of grad school, I worked for Sun Micro. We got 2 weeks (10 days) of paid vacation leave. Total time off was greater because of holidays.
Sun shut down over the summer to save money - that was 4 days (they used the 4th of july). So now you're down to 6 days. Go to a wedding, maybe take a couple of days off between christmas and new year's? That's it. No more time off.
This isn't a good way to live. As a young person, I was able to last for a while, but after a few years I was so burned out that I quit.
Now, 3 extra weeks of vacation for $14,000, take it or leave it, would have been tough. But I would happily have purchased an extra week of vacation for one third of that amount.
This is one of those utility curves. In my current job, I get a little over 4 weeks vacation leave (still in the US). Extra time off would be nice, but I'd pay far less for it.
But in the early days, with 2 weeks only that was largely accounted for, that extra week would have made the difference between a tiny bit of discretionary time off and nothing.
Honestly, this is probably a big part of why I left Sun, though I didn't realize it at the time. I didn't understand how brutally burned out I was. Looking back - difficult commute, long hours, and 2 weeks of "vacation" largely eaten up by mandatory closures and family obligations... well, it's pretty clear in retrospect.
It seems the better US employers are far wiser now, and realize that very stingy vacation policies are harmful not only to retention but to actual productivity, in the long run.
Re: Ask HN: Why are IT salaries so much lower in Europe than in the US?
#15As an IBM Managing Consultant I would say don't trust those numbers.
In which way do you think they are wrong?
Re: Ask HN: Why are IT salaries so much lower in Europe than in the US?
#16I checked this out for the same type of role in Bay Area and London.
There was no difference when you take tax,rent and holidays into consideration (10 - 15 days vs 25 - 28)
This didn't include any bonus / equity / perks
Re: Ask HN: Why are IT salaries so much lower in Europe than in the US?
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is 3 paid weeks of vacation really worth $14,000 to you?
18 days is more than 3.5 weeks of paid vacation. You also have to consider that the additional 14k will be taxed at a high marginal rate. You won't see 14k of that money. Less than 10k more likely (perhaps far less). So the question should be "Would you trade less than 10k of after-tax income for 3.5 weeks of paid vacation?" If my alternative is a paltry total of 12 paid vacation days per year? Definitely. I have a f…
$14k/3 weeks = about $4600/week. That is equivalent to a salary of $230k. Better to take the higher paying job and just take some time off unpaid.
Re: Ask HN: Why are IT salaries so much lower in Europe than in the US?
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
18 days is more than 3.5 weeks of paid vacation. You also have to consider that the additional 14k will be taxed at a high marginal rate. You won't see 14k of that money. Less than 10k more likely (perhaps far less). So the question should be "Would you trade less than 10k of after-tax income for 3.5 weeks of paid vacation?" If my alternative is a paltry total of 12 paid vacation days per year? Definitely. I have a f…
$14k/3 weeks = about $4600/week. That is equivalent to a salary of $230k. Better to take the higher paying job and just take some time off unpaid.
That's a fairly hyperbolic calculation. The difference between $98k and $84k is not really life-style changing.
On the other hand, if you can find a North American employer that gives you 12 days of paid vacation days off and you somehow get them to agree to give you an additional 18 unpaid days off a year, you've done quite well. I don't think it's a realistic scenario for a non-contractor.
Re: Ask HN: Why are IT salaries so much lower in Europe than in the US?
#19The average paid time off in Germany is about 30 days, whereas it is about 12 days in the US. That's something to factor in as a difference. I would happily take the extra time off over the $.
Is 3 paid weeks of vacation really worth $14,000 to you?
Yes. I live in the UK. If my 25 days holiday dropped to 12, I would consider that an absolutely massive drop in quality of life and I would take a large paycut to prevent it.
Re: Ask HN: Why are IT salaries so much lower in Europe than in the US?
#20Socialist systems keep wages average. Extreme case is Belgium. I'm a proficient software developer with a college degree. I make about 500 euro/month more than a cleaning lady.
I have a hard time believing you since minimal Belgium legal wage is around 1200 euros / month before taxes. And software developer is hardly a blue-collar job. Either you work part-time or your being exploited. You're trolling and you know it, HN is not Reddit so please stop.