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Overtime is Morphine

erniemiller.org

31–40 of 45 posts

Re: Overtime is Morphine

#31
post #9

Your website breaks the back button.

It does? I have had no issues with the back button. What are you seeing, exactly?

Don't you love problem reports with absolutely no details whatsoever?

I tested your site with Chrome 28.0.1500.72 m. The back button worked fine.

I then tested your site with Internet Explorer 9.0.18 and the back button worked fine.

I then tested your site with Firefox 22 and the back button worked fine.

Re: Overtime is Morphine

#33
post #8
post #6

Simple solution (from the software engineer's perspective): demand overtime pay. If you are officially expected to work 40h/week for certain amount of money, but in practise you're "expected" to work 50h/week, then your real wage is actually 20% lower than what your contract says. And that is pretty similar to theft. It's time to start comparing wages instead of absolute income.

Most SWEs are salary. Overtime laws are different for salaried employees(depending on jurisdiction). A lot of times, you can demand overtime all you want and the employer can simply deny it, and most will. Typically, your only options are to switch employers or file a lawsuit.

There are plenty of ways to pay for "overtime" without it being official overtime pay. eg. bonuses, time-off matching extra time worked during an unavoidable "crunch", etc.

Of course, there are still employers that won't even consider giving you any of that but make it a regular practice of overworking their employees. Don't work at these places.

Re: Overtime is Morphine

#34
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you go try to find a job where you're actually only expected to work 40 hours per week, and everyone goes home by 5:00. But then, you find that the salary offer is at least 20% lower than the place that worked you 50+ hours/week. High salaries come with high expectations. If you're getting paid a lot, expect to work a lot, too. If a good work/life balance were free, everyone would have it. It has a definite oppo…

All 11 years of my work experience thus far is in the defense industry, so keep that in mind as I state the following. I have yet to see an instance where salary scaled 1:1 with time put in. Where I used to work, the people that busted their asses for 50+ hours week in and week out, showing they were "team players", might get a 6% raise at review time instead of a 2% raise for a strict 8-5 engineer. They might also g…

The 4% difference compounds reasonably well.

Suppose you start at $80k and work at the company for 5 years. After five years the strict 8-5 eng in your example is making $87k--barely keeping up with inflation--and the hard worker is making $101k. The total compensation difference over 5 years is $35k.

Unfortunately, real world compensation schemes often don't even work out as well as your example...

Re: Overtime is Morphine

#35
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All 11 years of my work experience thus far is in the defense industry, so keep that in mind as I state the following. I have yet to see an instance where salary scaled 1:1 with time put in. Where I used to work, the people that busted their asses for 50+ hours week in and week out, showing they were "team players", might get a 6% raise at review time instead of a 2% raise for a strict 8-5 engineer. They might also g…

The 4% difference compounds reasonably well. Suppose you start at $80k and work at the company for 5 years. After five years the strict 8-5 eng in your example is making $87k--barely keeping up with inflation--and the hard worker is making $101k. The total compensation difference over 5 years is $35k. Unfortunately, real world compensation schemes often don't even work out as well as your example...

Indeed, a 4% difference compounds quite well. Unfortunately many people imagine they might get a 3% or 4% net bump, when they are really going to get 1% extra.

Working an extra 20% so that you are paid appropriately larger salary 19 years down the line is not a terrible choice if you really need the money. It is also possible you will earn true grade improvement along the way and get a one time additional bump of 5% for your effort.

Of course, if we reverse the equation, things might look differently. I have about 3 potential free hour per workday and 12 free hours per weekend day, for a net 39 hours of "my own time", earned by showing up to work. Giving 10 hours of those to the employer is a "pay cut" of 25%.

Re: Overtime is Morphine

#36
post #6

Simple solution (from the software engineer's perspective): demand overtime pay. If you are officially expected to work 40h/week for certain amount of money, but in practise you're "expected" to work 50h/week, then your real wage is actually 20% lower than what your contract says. And that is pretty similar to theft. It's time to start comparing wages instead of absolute income.

One should never work for any management that values hours spent rather than value created. But then, it also translates to work visibly.

Show me one company that can accurately measure value created. It's the holy grail of management in software engineering. Anyway, in such a company you as a software engineer could be able to work (say) only 30h/week, so there's no overtime problem.

Re: Overtime is Morphine

#37
post #16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most SWEs are salary. Overtime laws are different for salaried employees(depending on jurisdiction). A lot of times, you can demand overtime all you want and the employer can simply deny it, and most will. Typically, your only options are to switch employers or file a lawsuit.

Then you go try to find a job where you're actually only expected to work 40 hours per week, and everyone goes home by 5:00. But then, you find that the salary offer is at least 20% lower than the place that worked you 50+ hours/week. High salaries come with high expectations. If you're getting paid a lot, expect to work a lot, too. If a good work/life balance were free, everyone would have it. It has a definite oppo…

I don't have a problem with that, as long as the 50h/week is reflected in the contract and stated during the wage negotiation. The problem is that often(?) it's not, so you can't know your true wage until you've changed the employer and there's no turning back.

Re: Overtime is Morphine

#38
post #10
post #2

True story: a CMM Level 5 software organization had precisely the exact same issue. There was a PM, who would literally spend the entire day wasting time and start real work around 5 PM. Then work till late night. Once he advised me, "Always make sure that you send an e-mail, late at night to anybody in the organization, before you call it day." "Why?" To make it short, per his advise, the single most important thing…

You can get the same effect by coming early and making sure people notice that you were in ahead of them. When done correctly, you get the "behind the project"-bonus without overtime.

I find that coming in early doesn't produce the same social effect as staying late. I'm still not sure why. Maybe it has something to do with the perception of personal sacrifice? Coming in early doesn't impact your social schedule, while staying late says you're willing to sacrifice your evenings for the company. Coming in early just means you're willing to wake up earlier.

Re: Overtime is Morphine

#39

I like the article, and would love to apply, as "management" in my own company, effective measures to cure the pain instead of treat it. In fact, I generally try to do just that. But what this is basically suggesting is "locking out" your employer. While I agree that is absolutely what should happen, doing this without the leadership AND the developer in agreement about why sounds like disaster. I know it's likely im…

The suggestion isn't to introduce the lockout after the fact. In fact, what you're describing would be the exact thing that would happen in the metaphor -- acute withdrawal symptoms. The suggestion is to institute the lockout before dependency has a chance to develop.

Ah, well, I completely agree there :) Forgive me, but I didn't really catch the preventative portion of the essay. Looking back over it, I can certainly see your point above and we're more than likely "violently agreeing", heh.

Seems like we're both saying "an ounce of prevention..." here

Re: Overtime is Morphine

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The suggestion isn't to introduce the lockout after the fact. In fact, what you're describing would be the exact thing that would happen in the metaphor -- acute withdrawal symptoms. The suggestion is to institute the lockout before dependency has a chance to develop.

Ah, well, I completely agree there :) Forgive me, but I didn't really catch the preventative portion of the essay. Looking back over it, I can certainly see your point above and we're more than likely "violently agreeing", heh. Seems like we're both saying "an ounce of prevention..." here

Yep, absolutely. Thanks for the follow-up!
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