Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Linus on "acting professionally"

marc.info

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 505 posts

Re: Linus on "acting professionally"

#261

Post by Goladus »

smtddr wrote: post #61
jdietrich wrote: post #44

You don't get to tell Linus what is or isn't professional. He has led one of the most important human endeavours of the last hundred years. However he decides to get that done is his business. Call it rude or impolite, call it thoughtless or insulting, but don't call it unprofessional. If there's one thing that nobody can dispute, it's that Linus knows how to get shit done and knows how to run an effective team. Ther…

So, basically your position is "If you don't like it, get out". I'm not sure this view is productive in any kind of discussion. Personally, I think the amount of abusive speech & profanity in the tech-field is way too much. I assume(incorrectly?) that it's because it's mostly male and a lot of men like to do that to each other. I personally don't do it to anyone and don't like it being directed at me.

So, basically your position is "If you don't like it, get out". I'm not sure this view is productive in any kind of discussion.

Yes. The discussion shouldn't even be taking place. It is a waste of time. That's why the parent qualified Linus as the leader of one of the most important human endeavors of the last century.

Most project managers do not behave like Linus. There's a whole world full of people who "act professionally." Linus is not one of them, and contrary to some of hand-wringing I've seen in this thread he is not inspiring hordes of foul-mouthed abusive managers to go out and oppress poor developers.

Re: Linus on "acting professionally"

#262

Post by inaudible »

This is out of context, and while Linus is an entertaining and impassioned writer, it really shouldn't be discussed outside of the group who's job it is to read it, albeit on a public list.

I guess that Linus generally achieves results from a direct and terse tone, but that may also be the fastest way to get through his vast inbox. It's far from diplomatic bureaucracy and that's going to rub some people, but the parent was probably right on calling him out.

I just don't think this is the forum for this kind of gossip, why not leave it to lowest denominator tech journalism?

Re: Linus on "acting professionally"

#263

Post by DigitalJack »

bad_user wrote: post #255
columbo wrote: post #200

This is another great example of why you can't take successful people and distil them down to their base components and say "ah, this is what made him great!" I believe being a loud-abrasive-dictator works for Linus because he is famous for being a loud-abrasive-dictator. That's not important. What is important is the reader. Let's be clear on a few things #1 - Linus doesn't run a business. He's the kernel admin, he'…

I do not think managing an open-source project is so different than running a company. > Linus doesn't run a business. He's the kernel admin He's also the original author. And he still is an awesome developer and the Linux kernel is not his only accomplishment. Git is another one. Linus is one of those people that can change the face of our industry over night and he has done so at least twice. Not only that, but if…

The main difference is everybody is remote. I don't doubt Linus would be less brutal in person.

Re: Linus on "acting professionally"

#264

Post by Quarrelsome »

jakobe wrote: post #37

Torvalds seems to be a real bully. And it hurts me to see all these responses justifying his behaviour, as if this is the way it must be. Just look at this message: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1TUvG3J... There is no justification for this kind of behaviour. If anybody else behaved this way, they would be sent to a psychiatrist. But apparently since it's Linus Torvalds, he's just being a littl…

I don't think you get it. The premise of his attitude is that you've shat on his carpet. He wants to express his most wholesome distaste for the previous post this person made (breaking user space and then blaming user space). If someone shits on your carpet you don't make then a cup of tea, clean it up for them and ask them how their day was, you do _this_. It's effective communication.

If you perform this text in a "professional" manner then you will completely lose the correct tone of the message, which is: DON'T FUCKING DO THAT.

Psychiatrist? Bully? He's not punching this person in the face he's teaching them a very hard lesson on the correct attitude of a kernal maintainer.

Re: Linus on "acting professionally"

#266

Post by Iftheshoefits »

doctorfoo wrote: post #199
phryk wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too much profanity? Well butter my ass and call me fucking skittles! So you want to censor everyone who doesn't buy into your flowery child talk? Fuck that. Cursing is a perfectly fine means of setting emphasis and I sure as shitpissfuckcuntcocksuckermotherfuckertits am not going to surrender that just so some shithead I don't even care about can jack off to his or her little control fantasies. You don't like that? I…

Hacker News: Where IQ and intelligence trumps being pleasant. So many tech types are assholes.

I'd prefer an intelligent asshole over an unintelligent...anything else just about. One thing I've learned about myself in my 30-some years on this earth is that I just can't stomach the company of people less intelligent than me (that's not to say I'm a genius, or even above average necessarily) for a very long time.

However, don't conflate "tech type" with "high IQ/intelligence." The tech industry has the same percentage of idiots as any other, and our idiots aren't any smarter than those others' idiots just because they can scratch out a chunk of python or haskell or whatever.

Re: Linus on "acting professionally"

#267

Post by paganel »

gngeal wrote: post #75
ealexhudson wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So lying is a result of "acting professionally", but swearing is natural and ok? I don't buy that "people" need to swear any more than they need to lie, or that the result of swearing is somehow less damaging/more productive than lying.

I don't buy that "people" need to swear any more than they need to lie, or that the result of swearing is somehow less damaging/more productive than lying. Lying is dishonorable, counterproductive in context of multiple cooperating people, and a really bad idea overall, purely objectively. Swearing, linguistics-wise, is indeed a completely normal ("natural and ok") trait (present to some extent in individuals of all…

> How could you possibly equate these two is beyond me.

I'd say is a cultural thingie. Compared to other languages English has very few swear words/expressions, for example in my native language you could swear at someone by saying something like "fuck your mother's dead relatives" (it sounds way worse in original, trust me). If someone were to say that to my face my first instinct would be to see if I can beat him right there on the spot (and if yes, would I risk going to prison for hospitalizing him?) and if no then I'd think of swearing back with something even harsher (while looking for an escape route).

On the other hand everybody lies, that's why we have things like contracts etc, it's assumed that at some point or another we'll stop telling the truth.

Re: Linus on "acting professionally"

#269

Post by CrLf »

shubb wrote: post #135

Agreement not to be nasty to people mostly protects people in a weak position. It's a long time since that has been Linus, so it's not surprising he's forgotten the merits of it. Say 'Sarah Sharp' was hired by her company as a kernel developer. She knows that, if she makes a commit and Linus doesn't like it, he will write up what she has done like it was terrible (rather than slightly careless, or even just different…

That's a totally ludicrous argument. There are plenty of assholes in the open source world, some of them are even at the helm of pretty significant projects. Linus, however, does not seem to be one of them, merely for the fact that his "abuse" seems to always be accompanied by very strong arguments based on actual facts.

You are suggesting that getting a shake down from Linus is a bad thing. Well, only if you have no arguments of your own to stand upon. Otherwise, it benefits you to even have an argument with Linus (even if you end up on the wrong side - which isn't guaranteed to always be the case).

Re: Linus on "acting professionally"

#270

Post by oleganza »

Linus makes a great point here. While I personally don't think I'd enjoy working with Linus, I have to agree with him. He can behave how he wants and it's my responsibility if I don't like it. Linus does not run after me with curses and I don't want to do that to him either.
Post reply on HN