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Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August

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Re: Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August

#61

Post by berntb »

criley2 wrote: post #37
amitparikh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SpaceX is doing great implementations of pretty conservative designs. Like the other reply mentioned, they are certainly working on some technologies that are starkly less conservative. One example is the Grasshopper [1], a reusable first stage that is capable of returning to the launchpad under controlled burn. [1] Here's the most recent 325m test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGimzB5QM1M

It's worth mentioning that their "less conservative" VTVL rocket is currently hitting about 10% of the DC-X's ~3100m record. While the grasshopper is very cool, the concept of a VTVL rocket is not new. Hell, the Apollo Lunar Module technically landed and took off afterwards, as well!

I remember reading the arguments for reusability etc 1990 on usenet's sci.space (and later sci.space.tech). Henry Spencer et al made good points.

You have to wonder how large a role is played by NASA not having a shuttle now -- and hence no motivation to use its political clout to stop competition?

Let us just hope delaying the real space age capabilities a few decades won't result in the death of humanity... (But if we go extinct because of a bureaucracy's need for job security, we arguably deserve what we get.)

Re: Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August

#62

Post by Shivetya »

rorrr2 wrote: post #60
drpgq wrote: post #2

I'm always surprised that more billionaires don't try interesting off the wall projects when they have so much money. What's the fun of having it, if you can't have the occasional mad scientist moment.

I'm more surprised that more billionaires don't build crazy monuments of themselves or just some crazy ones with their name on it.

sadly that is what politicians do.

as to billionaires and there use of money, I am more than happy how some of them turned their fortune into good use. the most obvious being Gates.

Re: Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August

#63

Post by toomuchtodo »

btilly wrote: post #53
rayiner wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is more "secret sauce" in Tesla than in SpaceX. SpaceX is doing great implementations of pretty conservative designs. In any case, both are "product" companies and benefit from patents less than "design" companies. Contrast SpaceX with Mojave Aerospace Ventures (the investment vehicle that owns the Spaceship One IP developed by Scaled Composites).

Everyone has criticized you based on how great SpaceX is. I'll go the other way. Tesla at its heart is "put a ton of batteries which were developed by other companies into an electric motor that drives a car." People have been trying this formula for over a century. Tesla happened to do it when battery technology was just good enough to work, with really good styling.

To say this is highly disingenuous, and disregards the massive amount of work into the energy management system researched by Tesla.

Put a ton of batteries into a car? Yeah, that's how they get 265 miles to a charge. Clearly all other EV cars just need a ton of batteries to solve the range issue.

Re: Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August

#64

Post by ianstallings »

Musk is the modern day inventor/businessman of old.

This project has to be the most impactful thing on my life he has proposed and I welcome it with open arms. Paypal was smart, Tesla is cool, Space X is plain bad a^^, but this could change everything. Coast to coast in hours, half hour from NY to DC. And it could make it much cheaper than air travel due to less energy usage overall.

Re: Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August

#65

Post by curveship »

cma wrote: post #42

This is my guess: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6040206 Rather than maintain a vacuum hundreds of miles wide, why not just ride along the vacuum that occurs along a very low frequency soundwave (low frequency enough that the wavelength is larger than the vehicle). To visualize: http://profmattstrassler.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/wavegas... Since this wave would be going the speed of sound, that could be what…

That's really interesting. I wonder if the vehicle could effectively "surf" the back wave for propulsion -- higher pressure behind, lower pressure in front pushes the vehicle forward enough to overcome whatever low friction is involved. With an external system both for getting up to speed and in case it "falls off the wave."

Re: Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August

#66

Post by potatolicious »

ceejayoz wrote: post #29
nicktelford wrote: post #14

If this is, as it sounds, a new public transport system, it surprises me a little that he would prefer to develop it in the US. Attitudes towards public transport in general seem more favourable in the EU, Japan, China and South Korea. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I imagine getting such a system built in the EU (for example) would be easier than the US. Then again, Musk has been building a reputation with law-m…

> Attitudes towards public transport in general seem more favourable in the EU, Japan, China and South Korea. As a result, they aren't in as desperate need of public transport as the US.

I feel like Musk is positioning not as an alternative to HSR. He's positioning this to shoot even one level higher - this can unseat air travel.

After all, at a reported 1000km/h speed, it would be faster than a Boeing 737 or Airbus A320, the typical modern transcontinental aircrafts around the world.

Why tackle a meager market of medium-distance routes (realistic for HSR) when you can kill off airlines entirely?

The talk about LA-SF in half an hour sounds only like phase 1 of a much more ambitious plan.

Re: Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August

#67

Post by pudquick »

criley2 wrote: post #37
amitparikh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SpaceX is doing great implementations of pretty conservative designs. Like the other reply mentioned, they are certainly working on some technologies that are starkly less conservative. One example is the Grasshopper [1], a reusable first stage that is capable of returning to the launchpad under controlled burn. [1] Here's the most recent 325m test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGimzB5QM1M

It's worth mentioning that their "less conservative" VTVL rocket is currently hitting about 10% of the DC-X's ~3100m record. While the grasshopper is very cool, the concept of a VTVL rocket is not new. Hell, the Apollo Lunar Module technically landed and took off afterwards, as well!

While you may be right about VTVL not being new, this is disingenuous at best:

> Hell, the Apollo Lunar Module technically landed and took off afterwards, as well!

It landed and launched in a relatively airless (windless) environment at 1/6th Earth's gravity ... and when it launched it left half of itself behind!

"Technically" indeed.

Re: Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August

#68

Post by JamesArgo »

rorrr2 wrote: post #60
drpgq wrote: post #2

I'm always surprised that more billionaires don't try interesting off the wall projects when they have so much money. What's the fun of having it, if you can't have the occasional mad scientist moment.

I'm more surprised that more billionaires don't build crazy monuments of themselves or just some crazy ones with their name on it.

This was pretty common behaviour in Rome.

Re: Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August

#69

Post by wissler »

drpgq wrote: post #2

I'm always surprised that more billionaires don't try interesting off the wall projects when they have so much money. What's the fun of having it, if you can't have the occasional mad scientist moment.

It's rare that the creative types end up being billionaires. Note that even Steve Jobs was kicked out of his own company, and then later only barely squeaked into the CEO slot, and only because the company was about dead anyway. He'd never have gotten the job if Skulley hadn't screwed things up quite so bad.

Re: Elon Musk to publish hyperloop design by August

#70

Post by mncolinlee »

btilly wrote: post #53
rayiner wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is more "secret sauce" in Tesla than in SpaceX. SpaceX is doing great implementations of pretty conservative designs. In any case, both are "product" companies and benefit from patents less than "design" companies. Contrast SpaceX with Mojave Aerospace Ventures (the investment vehicle that owns the Spaceship One IP developed by Scaled Composites).

Everyone has criticized you based on how great SpaceX is. I'll go the other way. Tesla at its heart is "put a ton of batteries which were developed by other companies into an electric motor that drives a car." People have been trying this formula for over a century. Tesla happened to do it when battery technology was just good enough to work, with really good styling.

Looking at the spectacular flop of the Fisker, packaging is far too often understated. Most people don't understand how complicated automotive systems are and how difficult it is to integrate them all together without numerous bugs and annoyances. Most big name automakers use off the shelf systems from third parties. Tesla did not.

Tesla won the highest score ever achieved from Consumer Reports while Fisker perished with a similar formula. That isn't simply luck.

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