Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I won't speak at women-only events

guardian.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 136 posts

Re: Why I won't speak at women-only events

#41

Post by prawks »

theorique wrote: post #25
3pt14159 wrote: post #20

The reason I don't listen to women in tech presentations: 1. I'm basically not allowed to voice an opinion that isn't completely aligned with the feminist status quo (I believe in equality, fuck me right). 2. I'd rather learn how to build a better emberjs app. Or learn more about thorium. 3. Unlike the vast majority of problems, there are few concrete steps to be taken to correct the imbalances that do exist. Edit: I…

The reason I don't listen to women in tech presentations I assume you mean "I don't listen to 'women in tech' presentations", rather than, "I don't listen to women, in tech presentations". The former is a political stance, the latter is excluding an entire sex for unknown reason, even if they are talking of emberjs or thorium.

I'll admit I side with the poster a bit, and I'd definitely agree with the former. The problem is that "women in tech" presentation don't try to fix the root-cause of the issue by giving "men in tech" any reason to believe women should be treated as equals. In my undergraduate studies we had an exceptional student who happened to be female. She gave enlightening and challenging technical presentations that engaged the audience. That's how it should be.

Re: Why I won't speak at women-only events

#42

Post by jasonlotito »

overgard wrote: post #26
smtddr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With this kind of thinking, how will women(or any less-represented group) be able to reach you?

He didn't say he wasn't willing to listen, he expressed that he wanted a forum for equal discussion instead of a one way message.

Seeing that he doesn't attend "women in tech" presentations, how does he know they are all one-way messages?

On a side note: considering he's frustrated at self-sensoring himself from saying something he knew was wrong to say in some manner, I'd contend that in an environment where you do not have a chance to review what you say before saying it out loud, he's at least partially responsible for reactions he receives.

Re: Why I won't speak at women-only events

#43

Post by beachstartup »

jusben1369 wrote: post #28
3pt14159 wrote: post #20

The reason I don't listen to women in tech presentations: 1. I'm basically not allowed to voice an opinion that isn't completely aligned with the feminist status quo (I believe in equality, fuck me right). 2. I'd rather learn how to build a better emberjs app. Or learn more about thorium. 3. Unlike the vast majority of problems, there are few concrete steps to be taken to correct the imbalances that do exist. Edit: I…

Good Lord you do sound like you have a lot of issues with women btw. Edit: My fault for not explaining further: Pasted just below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6045814

this is standard anti-male shaming language. it ALWAYS shows up in gender discussions because it's a great way to instantly discredit anyone without actually using an argument.

notice how there isn't any actual content in the rebuttal and how it is completely infalsifiable and indefensible. it's the equivalent of dropping the c-word in an argument against a woman.

shaming language against males:

  * grow up, be a man, man up  
  * you're a virgin / inexperienced  
  * "issues with women"   
  * you're bitter   
  * you're scary   
  * you're a rapist  
  * you must be gay (not sure why people use this one) 
  * you hate women  
  * you have psychological issues

Re: Why I won't speak at women-only events

#44

Post by bilbo0s »

arrrg wrote: post #34
Wintamute wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When someone says they believe in equality, why do you then say they have an issue with women?

I'm just guessing, but I would say maybe completely bonkers bullshit like "feminist status quo"?!

Guys...

Would it be ok if we could discuss this without the profanity?

Re: Why I won't speak at women-only events

#45

Post by tokenrove »

Wintamute wrote: post #30
jusben1369 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good Lord you do sound like you have a lot of issues with women btw. Edit: My fault for not explaining further: Pasted just below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6045814

When someone says they believe in equality, why do you then say they have an issue with women?

It's a typical stance taken by people ignorant of the grievances of a minority or oppressed group. It's like saying, "I believe all the problems here are simple and solved except for trivial exceptions". "I believe in equality" is an easy stance to take without doing any research.

Re: Why I won't speak at women-only events

#46

Post by overgard »

jusben1369 wrote: post #28
3pt14159 wrote: post #20

The reason I don't listen to women in tech presentations: 1. I'm basically not allowed to voice an opinion that isn't completely aligned with the feminist status quo (I believe in equality, fuck me right). 2. I'd rather learn how to build a better emberjs app. Or learn more about thorium. 3. Unlike the vast majority of problems, there are few concrete steps to be taken to correct the imbalances that do exist. Edit: I…

Good Lord you do sound like you have a lot of issues with women btw. Edit: My fault for not explaining further: Pasted just below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6045814

Fantastic. Why engage someone's points when you can play the white knight and simultaneously make an ad hominem attack instead?

Re: Why I won't speak at women-only events

#47

Post by rantanplan »

Men created the problem. Women like her can solve it. I knew it would come to this and other absurdities. All these men, accusing other men of anti-women sentiments, even when there weren't any. Some(mostly men!) have make it a personal crusade to vilify all men by definition. Some men are awful, some women are awful too. This kind of behavior will only sterilize our environments in the worst possible way. I'd like to see more women like her seeing the problem - and men taking notes.

Re: Why I won't speak at women-only events

#48

Post by overgard »

jasonlotito wrote: post #42
overgard wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't say he wasn't willing to listen, he expressed that he wanted a forum for equal discussion instead of a one way message.

Seeing that he doesn't attend "women in tech" presentations, how does he know they are all one-way messages? On a side note: considering he's frustrated at self-sensoring himself from saying something he knew was wrong to say in some manner, I'd contend that in an environment where you do not have a chance to review what you say before saying it out loud, he's at least partially responsible for reactions he receives.

Well he didn't say he never attended one, only that he chooses not to now. Anything else is editorializing. I don't know the guy so I can't say anything about his opinions, but I'm amused at how many assumptions people are making about this guy.

Re: Why I won't speak at women-only events

#49

Post by rmc »

3pt14159 wrote: post #20

The reason I don't listen to women in tech presentations: 1. I'm basically not allowed to voice an opinion that isn't completely aligned with the feminist status quo (I believe in equality, fuck me right). 2. I'd rather learn how to build a better emberjs app. Or learn more about thorium. 3. Unlike the vast majority of problems, there are few concrete steps to be taken to correct the imbalances that do exist. Edit: I…

1. I'm basically not allowed to voice an opinion that isn't completely aligned with the feminist status quo (I believe in equality, fuck me right).

Many people not involved with feminist groups often think feminists think the same about everything. Which shows they know nothing about actual disagreements within feminists groups. Just look up transexual issues & feminism. That's a big source of disagreement right there.

Re: Why I won't speak at women-only events

#50

Post by VLM »

ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #16

I wouldn't believe for a second that Meg Whitman, Marissa Mayer, Virginia Rometty, or Carly Fiorina have this problem. Parmer's column is accurate but not perplexing given what she said about being the CEO of Lady Geek. Her choice of target market (explained fairly well in its name) defines the context of her target audience.

"Meg Whitman, Marissa Mayer, Virginia Rometty, or Carly Fiorina"

Terrible examples. I was motivated enough to wikipedia them to gather the following data. Whitman and Fiorina have no tech background at all and have never worked tech jobs, pure management material all the way. Fiorina is legendary for destroying HP not exactly a glowing endorsement for women in anything. Mayer and Rometty went to school for tech but between the two of them they've only got about 5 years experience in tech/engineering before succumbing to the dark side of management.

If anything the message to young women with a list like that is women should get out of tech and into mgmt/marketing/beancounting ASAP because tech is a dead end for women.

Now, rather than 1%er management crooks, why not an example of a techie like Limor Fried? There's a real engineer, who happens to be female, someone who would make a good hero for young women in engineering / tech / programming. If you don't know who she is, you should look her up on wikipedia. There are of course a zillion other good techies who happen to be female, but an EE-chauvinist like myself is going to promote another EE. I can think of a relatively famous FPGA dev and many others.

Post reply on HN