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Enough with the JavaScript already

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Re: Enough with the JavaScript already

#81

Post by k-mcgrady »

MrDOS wrote: post #63
k-mcgrady wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "The most annoying part of Android development is probably Eclipse" Hopefully Android Studio[1] will be the solution to that problem. >> "I keep hearing this FUD, but I have no idea where it's coming from. I've never had any problems with the Android documentation." I don't think the Android documentation is bad but I find iOS documentation much better. It might just be because I'm more used to the iOS docs (5 yea…

Coming from a world of Java (Java SE of no particular platform and Android), I find the iOS documentation surprisingly hard to navigate. In the Java world, it's common for documentation on a class to contain at least a page of introductory material to the class including its purpose, its function, major caveats, some example code, etc. The iOS documentation splits all of that up between Getting Started articles, the…

Maybe it is just because I've more experience with iOS documentation that I find it superior then.

Re: Enough with the JavaScript already

#82

Post by joshuacc »

ebbv wrote: post #71
chewxy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to think of it this way: Some languages allow you to shoot yourself in the foot easier than other languages, given the context and environment. Abuses and problems precisely show Javascript's defects. The more easily abusable a language is, the more defective it is. A lot can be said about familiarity with the language. Many examples in wtfjs.com boils down to (mis)understanding the language itself. Let's call…

You are 100% wrong. C allows you to shoot yourself in the foot much more easily and much worse than JavaScript. JS is a far more "safe" language to code in. No pointers, no memory allocation. Yeah JS isn't typed but the problems that you get into with that are nothing by comparison. And again, I'm not saying JS doesn't have problems, it does. But the problems this presentation is complaining about are not results of…

FYI, Nicholas Zakas, the person who gave this presentation (which I attended) is a well-known JavaScript expert. He's definitely not complaining about JavaScript as such, just horrible misuses of it.

Re: Enough with the JavaScript already

#83

Post by tres »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #73
coob wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's nasty about Obj-C?

The syntax and the APIs.

I understand that the Smalltalk like syntax of Objective C can be difficult to understand at first glance; however, once you've worked with it a bit, the syntax becomes quite expressive -- each argument is labeled; something like using named arguments in Ruby, but it's not optional.

Not sure what you mean about the APIs being nasty. Can you elucidate?

Re: Enough with the JavaScript already

#84

Post by nbevans »

pjmlp wrote: post #69
nbevans wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Save 5 MB and condemn yourself/your team/your company to the hell of maintaining multiple code bases that all do basically the same thing but subtly different and written in different languages. Sounds like a dumb ass decision. It's the sort of logic that makes people pick C or C++ when a managed language would have been more appropriate.

Number 1 reason to uninstall applications on Play Store, executable size , Google IO 2013. Plus Mono does not save you from writing multiple UI code anyway.

Yes it does. Look at the MvvmCross project.

Also struggling to verify that claim re. executable size, can you provide a link? Either way, average app size on Android seems to be around 3MB. A typical Xamarin-compiled app is around 4 to 4.5MB.

Re: Enough with the JavaScript already

#86

Post by dreen »

bad_user wrote: post #12
dreen wrote: post #7

Why store state in DOM? Isn't that bad practice? I remember reading DOM access is the slowest part of JS [needs verification]. So you want to trade performance for few dozen kilobytes of assets that can be cached?

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about, however mobile phones have awful bandwidth and awful browsers with not enough memory to cache everything they can. In the context of websites, you also want the experience of new users to be the best it can be. Basically, caching is nice, but it only works efficiently for applications that users visit often and that don't rely on links going viral, such as GMail. Howeve…

Let me rephrase then; storing state in DOM may be ok for small pages with some insignificant JS on top to provide progressive enhancement, but from web app point of view its totally unfeasible and saving a few KB is IMHO not worth it.

Re: Enough with the JavaScript already

#87

Post by path411 »

melling wrote: post #54
rartichoke wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An issue with Dart is it does not support IE 8. IE 8 still ships with Windows 7 and it is quite popular. It's not reasonable to throw away all IE 8 traffic just to get Dart's features.

IE8 usage is under 8% so it's possible for some people/organizations to stop supporting it. In another year, I would expect market share to be under 5%. http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-daily-20130615... IE10 has more usage. Hopefully, Win 8.1 is successful for Microsoft and XP usage drops significantly.

There can be many markets where IE usage is much higher than the worldwide average. My previous job had IE as a whole with ~60% share. You can't just decide to ditch a browser because of averages, you need to look at your own data.

Re: Enough with the JavaScript already

#88

Post by Duhck »

This slideshow lost all credibility when it said to put your analytics in the tags. Sure some analytics providers might recommend you do that, but that is wrong and only serves to

A) Slow your site down B) Introduce a single point of failure into your webpage

All scripts should be loaded either async or at the end of the dom.

Re: Enough with the JavaScript already

#89

Post by jasonlotito »

marknutter wrote: post #51
netmute wrote: post #44

Enough with the no-context-attached slides already. Seriously, if you don't have a recording of the talk, or a transcript, at least provide an article or something.

I will never understand the utility of posting slides from a talk online without the audio.

It's useful for those that attended the talks. You generally don't need the audio, but just the highlights from the slides.

Re: Enough with the JavaScript already

#90

Post by chongli »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #13
cliveowen wrote: post #11

I wonder if there'll ever be an alternative to Javascript. I'm not talking about those things that eventually get translated to Javascript, I'm talking about a native platform well thought-through and based on a typed language that isn't a mess. Yeah, I know: it's not Javascript that's broken, it's the DOM. I'd argue that both should be replaced by something else, otherwise the future will be 90% native mobile apps,…

Absolutely. Write in whatever language you like, compile to asm.js - that way you're running in the browser, at about half native speed.

Asm.js is a non-starter for most of the high-level languages out there due to its lack of GC.
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