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Come to London

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Re: Come to London

#21

Post by pjmlp »

xadoc wrote: post #5

I believe the reason why Portuguese developers are not flooding UK (I don't completely agree, I see them coming more and more but slowly) is that any reasonably good developer in Portugal still can find work in consulting and state related IT firms. They work long hours and earn low, but enough to live comfortably there.

Another one is that people are too attached to stay in Portugal as well.

I am living abroad since 2003 (FR, CH, D), and still meet people that moved back, even with the crisis, or tell me that they can't imagine themselves living abroad.

Re: Come to London

#22

Post by pjmlp »

xadoc wrote: post #14
freyfogle wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But won't that opportunity be there after they spend 2-3 fun years in London?

That is my point exactly to them, but it seems tougher to leave family and friends when you live comfortably and still save some cash. Here is a sample of excuses my Portuguese friends (SW Engineer related) gave me to not even consider job opportunities in London: - can't leave my family now, I have a girlfriend and don't want to leave her - my English is not good enough - I don't like the weather there (sounds stupi…

Yep, those excuses seem familiar.

Re: Come to London

#23

Post by wklslk »

cocoflunchy wrote: post #8

Reading your internships page ( http://www.lokku.com/jobs/intern.html ): > Will you pay for my travel to London? No. > Can you help me get a work permit? No. You need to be able to work in the UK. The internship sounds really interesting, but maybe if you want more people applying from all over Europe, you should be a little more open about your relocation policy? (I understand that the cost of travel might not be pr…

I was interested in applying for an internship with them a few years ago. If I recall correctly, the pay was barely enough to cover the cost of living in London (if that), and it was a lot lower than the pay for any other developer internship I've come across, even some up north. If you'd have to relocate, you'd almost certainly have to pay out of pocket.

If they're not paying for travelling to interview in London, that's again worse than expected, since pretty much all companies, startups and corporations alike, do.

Re: Come to London

#24

Post by lifeisstillgood »

gotofritz wrote: post #18
cocoflunchy wrote: post #8

Reading your internships page ( http://www.lokku.com/jobs/intern.html ): > Will you pay for my travel to London? No. > Can you help me get a work permit? No. You need to be able to work in the UK. The internship sounds really interesting, but maybe if you want more people applying from all over Europe, you should be a little more open about your relocation policy? (I understand that the cost of travel might not be pr…

Travel TO London is probably not going to be half as expensive as travel IN London once they get there

Scarily thats true

  Single flight Krakow to London :130 Zloty or about 29 UKP
  One week travelcard zones 1-6 - 55 quid.
That's utterly insane

* http://www.ryanair.com/en/cheap-flights/krakow-to-london-sta... (Airport tax not included) * http://www.londontoolkit.com/briefing/travelcard.htm

Re: Come to London

#25

Post by guard-of-terra »

freyfogle wrote: post #3
timbrooke wrote: post #2

> Come to London ... and don't forget to bring your mobile phone - we'd like to get to know each other a little better: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10177765/Travellers-mo...

But is that really a reason not to come work in London for a few years? Is the situation any better in other EU countries?

The feeling is that yes, EU/Schengen borders are much less surprise-ridden than US/UK.

Re: Come to London

#26

Post by mseebach »

tomp wrote: post #17
cocoflunchy wrote: post #8

Reading your internships page ( http://www.lokku.com/jobs/intern.html ): > Will you pay for my travel to London? No. > Can you help me get a work permit? No. You need to be able to work in the UK. The internship sounds really interesting, but maybe if you want more people applying from all over Europe, you should be a little more open about your relocation policy? (I understand that the cost of travel might not be pr…

2) If you're an EU citizen, you can work in the UK (with a few exceptions, e.g. AFAIK Croatia citizens can't access the common jobs market for a certain period after Croatia has joined the EU). If you're not, it's a lot of paperwork to get a work permit, and usually not worth it. 1) EU travel is really cheap - London is one of the most frequented destinations for the low-cost airlines (EasyJet, RyanAir, WizzAir, ...)…

1) The corollary of that, of course, is that the company should be happy to pay the flight for the interview if the candidate sounds good after a phone conversation, if perhaps not for the relocation itself.

Re: Come to London

#27

Post by kolektiv »

Hmmm. I'm not one of the people you're really looking for here, but I could take a stab at reasons why I haven't been beating a path to your door...

a) I haven't really heard of you. A few words here and there over the years, but how much do you get out there and tell the geek community you exist? I'm guessing it's specific to a few specific tech areas - which I haven't seen. b) You're in London, you talk about "working hard" and being in your "Clerkenwell office". I've worked round there before, but really? I want a company who's more about working smart - and not in one place all the time. How much do you really need to physically see me? Commuting, plus a little bit of a tiny hint of "macho hard work culture" (probably unfair, but...) is enough for me to take a place off my list. It's a sellers market, generally. c) Also... money. London is expensive. Everyone knows London is expensive (and they're right). You don't say anything about money - no hints, etc. My reaction (being picky) is that it probably isn't enough to make it worth my while (and also that you may try and make me the lowest offer you think you can - I'm assuming you don't have open pay scales). d) Effort. You talk about your tough hiring - multiple rounds, tests, a day working with you (you don't say whether you'll pay me for this...) Why would I do this? If I'm smart, capable, good at what I do, I probably know people who want to work with me already - why jump through these hoops for a possibly good job then?

These may be unfair points - I hope not, but perhaps - but finding good people right now is about attracting them, not throwing up barriers or making them work for it.

Re: Come to London

#28

Post by mseebach »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #24
gotofritz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Travel TO London is probably not going to be half as expensive as travel IN London once they get there

Scarily thats true Single flight Krakow to London :130 Zloty or about 29 UKP One week travelcard zones 1-6 - 55 quid. That's utterly insane * http://www.ryanair.com/en/cheap-flights/krakow-to-london-sta... (Airport tax not included) * http://www.londontoolkit.com/briefing/travelcard.htm

Yes, London travel is pretty expensive, but: You don't need a travelcard unless you travel more than once back and forth every days - pay as you go is cheaper. Also, the price of a flight without the airport tax is irrelevant, as there is no way to not pay it (which is why it's so dishonest for Ryanair not to include it in the price). Finally, commuting by bike in London is completely feasible - cycling from Poland is a significantly more substantial undertaking :)

Re: Come to London

#30

Post by lifeisstillgood »

Sorry, but this entirely missed the point.

Developers, hell, almost all office workers, should think remote working first then worry about relocation.

The comments all through here are quite right - it is hard for anyone to move country, even talented, young, healthy, unattached interns.

In the future workers will be able to work with any company in the world. This will scare the hell out of all companies and they will improve the pay and conditions.

On the other hand, I strongly urge anyone with developer skills and no family ties to move to any major city in Europe and live and work for a few years. Just go. The job is far far less important than simply being there.

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