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VP of Engineering - "best of the best" = no more than 12 years experience?

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Re: VP of Engineering - "best of the best" = no more than 12 years experience?

#131

Post by rhizome »

pdog wrote: post #120
dlss wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't get the impression OP thought that he was too good to implement a linked list in JS. Rather, he was looking for a company that was too good to spend interview time on a question containing low signal. Like, the question itself is boring and cookie cutter. Why not implement a linked list or a tree in SQL (much more interesting for everyone)? Or a simple query language in JavaScript (a bit more practical)? Or…

You're missing the point of the linked list. A simple coding test like "program a linked list" during an interview is just a negative filter. Someone who can't write a linked list certainly is not a good programmer.

But can they be a force of nature?

Another YC company:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/sof/3933816318.html

Re: VP of Engineering - "best of the best" = no more than 12 years experience?

#132

Post by rhizome »

effbott wrote: post #100
jerrya wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least 5 years experience is a requirement that is job related. You need 5 years of experience at X do lead others doing X. No more than 10 years experience seems very much not job related. How does having too much experience hurt a person's ability to do a job?

It's simple. People who have more experience generally demand higher salaries. The company in question is probably seeking someone who's fairly experienced but doesn't have the budget to afford a superstar.

So then you put an "up to" salary number in the ad.

Re: VP of Engineering - "best of the best" = no more than 12 years experience?

#133

Post by rhizome »

nilkn wrote: post #6

Maybe they assume someone with 12+ years of experience would demand a higher salary than they can offer? They might identify such a candidate with a C-level position like CTO more than a VP position. I don't really know; I'm just trying to come up with a non-ageist explanation. It might not be any different from how someone with 5+ years of experience normally wouldn't be considered for junior roles. Or it might just…

So...put a top salary number in the ad? If this is a hard question, maybe they should be asking it in their interviews instead of linked-lists.

Re: VP of Engineering - "best of the best" = no more than 12 years experience?

#134

Post by dlss »

pdog wrote: post #120
dlss wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't get the impression OP thought that he was too good to implement a linked list in JS. Rather, he was looking for a company that was too good to spend interview time on a question containing low signal. Like, the question itself is boring and cookie cutter. Why not implement a linked list or a tree in SQL (much more interesting for everyone)? Or a simple query language in JavaScript (a bit more practical)? Or…

You're missing the point of the linked list. A simple coding test like "program a linked list" during an interview is just a negative filter. Someone who can't write a linked list certainly is not a good programmer.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.. the things I suggested also include a negative filter component...

To reiterate my second sentence: He was looking for a company that was too good to spend interview time on a question containing low signal.

Re: VP of Engineering - "best of the best" = no more than 12 years experience?

#135

Post by chetanahuja »

rhizome wrote: post #131
pdog wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point of the linked list. A simple coding test like "program a linked list" during an interview is just a negative filter. Someone who can't write a linked list certainly is not a good programmer.

But can they be a force of nature? Another YC company: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/sof/3933816318.html

This is priceless.

Re: VP of Engineering - "best of the best" = no more than 12 years experience?

#136

Post by joshguthrie »

rhizome wrote: post #131
pdog wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point of the linked list. A simple coding test like "program a linked list" during an interview is just a negative filter. Someone who can't write a linked list certainly is not a good programmer.

But can they be a force of nature? Another YC company: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/sof/3933816318.html

>San Francisco >You're an earthquake

Stopped reading here.

Re: VP of Engineering - "best of the best" = no more than 12 years experience?

#137

Post by el_fuser »

KevinEldon wrote: post #125
el_fuser wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah... Lightweight processes were discussed as alternatives to waterfall way back in the 90s during my software engineering courses. "Rapid application development" and RAtional unified process were the "hot" lightweight methodologies when I started work in 1996. Scrum has been with us since 1995.

Agree, no debate about when you might have managed agile teams... could be you're Ken Schwaber (yeah, had to look up his name), but it then begs the 2nd question I raised... why would you want to do a startup? If you have 12+ years of experience with what is now a very hot process why, why?, WHY? would you want to work at a startup? A VP role doesn't sound like a C role. It doesn't sound like a really big equity play…

I think you're overestimating how hot of a skill that actually is... But even if you could make "boatloads" of cash consulting, not everyone desires the road warrior lifestyle that goes along with consulting.

Re: VP of Engineering - "best of the best" = no more than 12 years experience?

#138

Post by brown9-2 »

rdouble wrote: post #64
geuis wrote: post #58

This is going to probably bite me in the ass because I'm looking for work at the moment and occasionally apply to interesting YC companies but since this has come up, I'm going to share my story here because of the negative experience I had with the company in question. I had a phone screen with 500friends recently. They were late calling me, and the person I was scheduled to talk with wasn't even on the call. They h…

Not to excuse that sort of behavior, but this is a pretty typical HR experience in the Bay Area. Late calls, no-shows, awkward questions, either too easy or too hard, abrupt endings, obviously haven't read the resume, etc. Happens all the time, unfortunately.

The good news for the candidate is this type of behavior is a great leading indicator of what working for the company will be like.

Re: VP of Engineering - "best of the best" = no more than 12 years experience?

#139

Post by zohebv »

jacques_chester wrote: post #122
kamaal wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>First, this is for a "vp of engineering" that is "hands on". Are you really looking for an architect that codes? Sorry but why can't a VP of engineering be somebody who should code(even if occasionally) or some who could be competent at a code review. Its precisely this kind of attitude that gives ammunition to the MBA culture of appointing people who are clueless about their current job to manage the best people u…

> According to me anybody who claims to lead a group must be the best among that group, in the job that group performs. I think this is an error. Taking your best coder and then spending their time on not-coding is wasteful of their talents. Furthermore, insofar as you create competition to hold that position, you're creating a destructive work environment. Software development is a cooperative activity that can't be…

> Furthermore, insofar as you create competition to hold that position, you're creating a destructive work environment. Software development is a cooperative activity that can't be efficiently partitioned.

Seen way too many of these kinds of management structures. The management decides to appoint the crony as the lead, because picking the best developer is "wasteful" and creates a "destructive work environment". The amount of cringe inducing perversion of logic in the comment above is a tragedy because of its pervasiveness. On the flip side, these kinds of organizations are not too hard to avoid, doomed startups and successful behemoths - both fit these criteria. A smaller company with decent growth is probably the better bet.

Re: VP of Engineering - "best of the best" = no more than 12 years experience?

#140

Post by __--__ »

brown9-2 wrote: post #138
rdouble wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to excuse that sort of behavior, but this is a pretty typical HR experience in the Bay Area. Late calls, no-shows, awkward questions, either too easy or too hard, abrupt endings, obviously haven't read the resume, etc. Happens all the time, unfortunately.

The good news for the candidate is this type of behavior is a great leading indicator of what working for the company will be like.

Is it, though? Every company in the Bay Area I've ever worked for (and a few that weren't in the bay area) has hit multiple items on the parent's list. Even the ones who have their shit together and were a blast to work at gave horrible interviews.

Interviews are hard.

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