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High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

princeton.edu

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Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#21

Post by panic »

You can find the original paper at http://www.foodpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/HFCS_Rats_10.....

The statistics are a bit confusing to me, but it looks like they only find a significant difference for males over 8 weeks, not females over 7 months. The "significant" difference for males seems pretty small given that the rats started out weighing between 300 and 375 grams. And the conclusion doesn't mention sucrose at all:

In summary, rats maintained on a diet rich in HFCS for 6 or 7 months show abnormal weight gain, increased circulating TG and augmented fat deposition. All of these factors indicate obesity. Thus, over-consumption of HFCS could very well be a major factor in the “obesity epidemic,” which correlates with the upsurge in the use of HFCS.

Does anyone know if these results have been replicated anywhere?

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#22

Post by maxerickson »

MostAwesomeDude wrote: post #5
buddylw wrote: post #2

I don't understand the mechanism here. I thought sucrase, the enzyme that breaks down sucrose (table sugar) into 1 fructose and 1 glucose (same as HFCS), acted almost immediately -- at least on the timescale of nutrient absorption. Is it just short circuiting our sense of satiety? Maybe the raw fructose makes things sweeter and stimulates reward centers better? I wonder where honey falls in all this since it has high…

You sound like you are a paid shill. I know that you aren't, which disappoints me further, because I'd like to think that people are capable of educating themselves instead of spreading misinformation. On your first paragraph, pondering whether sucrose breaks down into fructose and glucose immediately: No, it doesn't. HFCS makes sugars available to the bloodstream sooner, causing larger swings in overall blood sugar…

It is too bad that they lacked the resources to include sucrose in the long term study (because why not).

It's also confusing that they never discuss (as far as I have seen anyway) how they determined the levels of sweeteners in the sugar drinks. I would like to see a study where the drinks had equivalent calories/volume, I can see where rats with access to water might avoid syrup but prefer a less sweet sugar drink. Even given some good explanation for the different calorie loads, it would still be interesting to see how it factored in.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#23

Post by schoper »

ryeguy wrote: post #15

Is there actually a published, peer-reviewed study available from this? This just seems like an in-progress summary. Additionally, as another poster commented, this is still correlative, not causative. HFCS might be indirectly responsible for weight problems, but that's only because of its prominence, low price, and calorie dense-ness. Not some voodoo reason as this article states and as many believe. Try this: http:…

Your rapport with the great Goog is weak. The study:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091305710...

Reply by the Corn Refiners Association:

http://www.corn.org/princeton-hfcs-study-errors.html

Thermodynamics question: They were holding energy inputs constant in the system. Stored energy was not constant. What third variable could have been responsible for the difference? Rhymes with input.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#25

Post by buddylw »

MostAwesomeDude wrote: post #5
buddylw wrote: post #2

I don't understand the mechanism here. I thought sucrase, the enzyme that breaks down sucrose (table sugar) into 1 fructose and 1 glucose (same as HFCS), acted almost immediately -- at least on the timescale of nutrient absorption. Is it just short circuiting our sense of satiety? Maybe the raw fructose makes things sweeter and stimulates reward centers better? I wonder where honey falls in all this since it has high…

You sound like you are a paid shill. I know that you aren't, which disappoints me further, because I'd like to think that people are capable of educating themselves instead of spreading misinformation. On your first paragraph, pondering whether sucrose breaks down into fructose and glucose immediately: No, it doesn't. HFCS makes sugars available to the bloodstream sooner, causing larger swings in overall blood sugar…

Wow. I think you severely miss-read my comment as some formal argument and you are holding it to a much higher standard than your own comment.

Your first paragraph is an ad hominem attack that is subsequently withdrawn adding nothing to the conversation.

I think you might have misread my questions for arguments. Questions have a symbol at the end: '?'. Also, sentences starting "I thought" are not formal arguments, but a highlight of the contrast between my past understanding and the article.

Also, in order for me to make such a contrast, wouldn't I have to read the article?

And just in case the attack at the beginning was serious, I would like to point out that the questions at the beginning of my post proposed two mechanisms whereby HFCS would be worse for you than sugar, which is what this study's results imply. That's hardly something a 'paid shill' would do.

The only argument I made, if I made one at all, is that just because HFCS is worse than sugar (as proposed by the article) doesn't mean that other sweeteners are good for you. This is likely an important thing to remember for all of those that will use this data when making decisions in their own lives.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#26

Post by ryeguy »

schoper wrote: post #23
ryeguy wrote: post #15

Is there actually a published, peer-reviewed study available from this? This just seems like an in-progress summary. Additionally, as another poster commented, this is still correlative, not causative. HFCS might be indirectly responsible for weight problems, but that's only because of its prominence, low price, and calorie dense-ness. Not some voodoo reason as this article states and as many believe. Try this: http:…

Your rapport with the great Goog is weak. The study: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091305710... Reply by the Corn Refiners Association: http://www.corn.org/princeton-hfcs-study-errors.html Thermodynamics question: They were holding energy inputs constant in the system. Stored energy was not constant. What third variable could have been responsible for the difference? Rhymes with input.

Your second link is broken.

The study's conclusions are misleading. The total intake from food and the sweetened water were not matched for calories. The only thing matched for calories was the amount of sweetened water; rats were allowed to eat as much food as they want. They then drew all of these conclusions that aren't directly related to HFCS, but related to the fact that the rats were overeating.

It's still an interesting conclusion, but really the only thing they concluded was that rats consuming HFCS ate more food than rats consuming sugar. All of the other negative effects cannot be pinned on HFCS.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#27

Post by randomdata »

ck2 wrote: post #3

Stop giving out corn welfare to corporations and problem solved. It's the ONLY reason why it's so heavily used. Corn syrup and ethanol - two massively damaging products of a completely corrupt system that everyone refuses to change because of massive profits off taxpayers.

The problem is not exactly solved, because it is not clear what the farmers should grow in the place of corn. As a grain farmer operating in a country that does not have subsidies, we still end up growing corn, even if it results in a loss. Bankers prefer to see a loss than to leave the land lay fallow, and there are not many famers who can operate against banker's wishes in such a capital intensive business.

You cannot just simply transition into other non-grain crops because nobody has the multi-million dollar investment that it would take to build up the necessary infrastructure, the environment is not always suitable for all types of food, and you cannot get away with growing the same crop year after year. Corn solves a lot of those problems, even if it ends up creating others, as you point out.

It is a pretty deep problem that cannot be solved with just a stroke of a pen, though innovation is always welcome on the farm, if you have real solutions.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#28

Post by tzs »

MostAwesomeDude wrote: post #5
buddylw wrote: post #2

I don't understand the mechanism here. I thought sucrase, the enzyme that breaks down sucrose (table sugar) into 1 fructose and 1 glucose (same as HFCS), acted almost immediately -- at least on the timescale of nutrient absorption. Is it just short circuiting our sense of satiety? Maybe the raw fructose makes things sweeter and stimulates reward centers better? I wonder where honey falls in all this since it has high…

You sound like you are a paid shill. I know that you aren't, which disappoints me further, because I'd like to think that people are capable of educating themselves instead of spreading misinformation. On your first paragraph, pondering whether sucrose breaks down into fructose and glucose immediately: No, it doesn't. HFCS makes sugars available to the bloodstream sooner, causing larger swings in overall blood sugar…

> Second paragraph: Irrelevant. Honey is not being discussed here.

No, it is NOT irrelevant. Testing with honey would be a natural followup to these kinds of experiments. It is entirely relevant for him to wonder about it.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#29

Post by justin66 »

randomdata wrote: post #27
ck2 wrote: post #3

Stop giving out corn welfare to corporations and problem solved. It's the ONLY reason why it's so heavily used. Corn syrup and ethanol - two massively damaging products of a completely corrupt system that everyone refuses to change because of massive profits off taxpayers.

The problem is not exactly solved, because it is not clear what the farmers should grow in the place of corn. As a grain farmer operating in a country that does not have subsidies, we still end up growing corn, even if it results in a loss. Bankers prefer to see a loss than to leave the land lay fallow, and there are not many famers who can operate against banker's wishes in such a capital intensive business. You can…

> The problem is not exactly solved, because it is not clear what the farmers should grow in the place of corn.

It's quite possible they should stop being farmers and that the nation should farm out (get it?) much of its agriculture to the developing world. This is certainly what "the market" dictates and something which government spends a lot of money working to prevent.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#30

Post by hayksaakian »

randomdata wrote: post #27
ck2 wrote: post #3

Stop giving out corn welfare to corporations and problem solved. It's the ONLY reason why it's so heavily used. Corn syrup and ethanol - two massively damaging products of a completely corrupt system that everyone refuses to change because of massive profits off taxpayers.

The problem is not exactly solved, because it is not clear what the farmers should grow in the place of corn. As a grain farmer operating in a country that does not have subsidies, we still end up growing corn, even if it results in a loss. Bankers prefer to see a loss than to leave the land lay fallow, and there are not many famers who can operate against banker's wishes in such a capital intensive business. You can…

As long as the subsidies exist, there is no capitalistic incentive to solve the problem.

If a solution NEEDS to be found, it is more likely to be found.

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