You should read the book "ein König für Deutschland" (a King for germany) - it very reasonably makes clear why computer-based voting always will be Much easier manipulable and why democracies should stay with paper based Voting.
Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public
121–130 of 144 posts
Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public
#122You should read the book "ein König für Deutschland" (a King for germany) - it very reasonably makes clear why computer-based voting always will be Much easier manipulable and why democracies should stay with paper based Voting.
Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Java Enterprise Edition is the name of an Oracle product. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/overview/index... It's "enterprise" literally by definition.
Indeed, and so it's uncool and crappier than Python? How is that related? The OP clearly used the term "enterprise" with a negative connotation. I doubt he was referring to a brand name.
The OP did not use any such language ("crappier").
As noted, Oracle uses the term "enterprise", which I take to imply a corporate approach to language implementation the coincides with service/support agreements and other business models.
For what it is worth, the JVM is second to none for interpreted languages in my book. At the same time, I don't use it and if I ever find myself going back, it will be for Scala. I don't much care for Oracle's brand of innovation (I don't think it is sustainable).
Tell me something, from your perspective: Why should an aspiring technologist learn Java over Python?
Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public
#124This seems like a good contract to the typical (american-inspired) secrecy around governmental systems. I would also like to believe open source makes software more secure, but I'm not sure if there is any research that confirms it. Oh, and cool its made in python and not some enterprise java or .NET :)
We're getting off topic, but you do know that it's perfectly possible to write decent Java or C# without it being "enterprise", right? (whatever that means) I'm starting to get sick of this "ruby/python/nodejs = cool, java/.net = slow bloated enterprise crap for men with suits" attitude that keeps reappearing here on HN. Whether your work environment is cool, whether your code is decent and snappy, all that has very…
Because java these days seems relegated to legacy code or the 'enterprise environment'. And that's fine with me, I've always hated it in any environment.
The concept of 'write once, run anywhere' is fine and dandy in concept. Until you realize that it's a huge install base AND that there are 40 or so 'subversions'(updates) to each version. If I had a dime for every time i've seen a dozen java installs on a box, I'd be a rich man.
It is truly the worst of both worlds. Python does the 'write once run anywhere' better. C/C++/Go/etc do compiled, binary work. Java is a bloated, half compiled mess.
It's funny that you defend it so, using the 'age' argument. You do know that python is years older than both Java and C#? It's popular because it's done right, and has a good, open community, not because it's "new and trendy."
Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
The "Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License" is an "open source" license. The source code itself is "open" and can be redistributed for free (beer not speech). But it is disappointing that they have opted to prohibit derivatives, and it makes their posting of the code to GitHub an interesting choice.
What if you clone the repo before the license was added? Then do you get code in the public domain?
No, the default state of software is copyrighted and not redistributable. You need a specific license to give you the right to modify and/or redistribute software (though I think copyright should be changed to allow private modification for certain purposes).
Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public
#126So surely some open source hardware + software voting machines are being developed somewhere...
True?
Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
We're getting off topic, but you do know that it's perfectly possible to write decent Java or C# without it being "enterprise", right? (whatever that means) I'm starting to get sick of this "ruby/python/nodejs = cool, java/.net = slow bloated enterprise crap for men with suits" attitude that keeps reappearing here on HN. Whether your work environment is cool, whether your code is decent and snappy, all that has very…
Because java these days seems relegated to legacy code or the 'enterprise environment'. And that's fine with me, I've always hated it in any environment. The concept of 'write once, run anywhere' is fine and dandy in concept. Until you realize that it's a huge install base AND that there are 40 or so 'subversions'(updates) to each version. If I had a dime for every time i've seen a dozen java installs on a box, I'd b…
Java and the JVM are in still in prolific use - the JVM is a terrific piece of engineering. It features prominently in a bunch of large-scale web architectures (be it as straight Java, Hadoop, Scala or whatever). Note of these are traditional enterprise or legacy environments.
I've never seem a major schism in Java or the JVM on the scale of the split between Python 2.x and 3.x. All my installs require (_at least_) two versions of Python as a result. In fact it was only just recently that Debian/Ubuntu consolidated from shipping with 3 versions of Python to 2.
If you're talking about install base then I guess you're limiting this to client apps - because none of the issues you mention are an issue for server environments... Unless you are running a dozen Java pieces of tech that all require a specific version? In the last 10-15 years I've only ever seen the need for two Java versions once. And that was on AIX. On POWER chips. And it was a vendor, not a technical requirement.
Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public
#128Common, not a single positive comment ? Things in the administration always take time. At least it's a move in the right direction. Next add a build CI to produce signed images. Then propose USB keys for people to boot their own system on the voting booth. At least it's better than the Diebold debacle in the states.
IMHO internet voting falls under "because you can does not mean you should".
I don't agree to that. Current elections are costly, slow and bloated, meaning they can't be conducted often. Internet voting could allow for new forms of democracy altogether.
Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is the editor a program is written in really a criterion you evaluate software against?
Do you not? Of course it's not reliable, but for a quick heuristic I've found it to be quite well correlated with the quality of the code.
I've written some terrible code in vim.
What editor has negative connotations?
Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because java these days seems relegated to legacy code or the 'enterprise environment'. And that's fine with me, I've always hated it in any environment. The concept of 'write once, run anywhere' is fine and dandy in concept. Until you realize that it's a huge install base AND that there are 40 or so 'subversions'(updates) to each version. If I had a dime for every time i've seen a dozen java installs on a box, I'd b…
Java and the JVM are in still in prolific use - the JVM is a terrific piece of engineering. It features prominently in a bunch of large-scale web architectures (be it as straight Java, Hadoop, Scala or whatever). Note of these are traditional enterprise or legacy environments. I've never seem a major schism in Java or the JVM on the scale of the split between Python 2.x and 3.x. All my installs require (_at least_) t…
JVM works, but let's not get carried away there. It still has method size limit of 64Kb here in 21st century, it is stack-based (reducing the possible optimization space considerably), and has no provisions for proper lexical scoping.
People port languages to JVM for its ubiquity and massive amounts of library code, but I assure you none does it for some technical advantage.