Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice • Hacker News Board

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#71

Post by zachrose » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 12:36 AM UTC

nilkn wrote: post #69

Glyptodon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the trend of calling people who code 'engineers.' It's just not a good title for anything to do with software. And invariably people who embrace its usage seem to be trying to compensate or ignorant of what a real engineer actually does or is.

What exactly is an engineer then? A lot of my friends are desk engineers at chemical companies. Not a single one is putting anything together at all with their hands, and most aren't figuring out how other people will put stuff together with their hands either. It's an almost entirely intellectual endeavor. In fact, at some places like Exxon, some chemical engineers are also internally known as economic analysts beca…

Putting things together with your hands is what mechanics do.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#72

Post by gizmo686 » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 1:01 AM UTC

chocolatebunny wrote: post #51

alxbrun wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only my wife's body was immutable.

I think you want a mutable wife. Otherwise you'll eventually have to throw her out and get a new one.

The compiler will optimize that.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#73

Post by lsc » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 1:11 AM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #67

analyst74 wrote: post #2

You should call yourself whatever based on the situation. If you are hanging out with a group of consultants, you call yourself consultant; if you are a special effects programmer, and talking to a model, you say you're in the movie business; if you are interviewing with the author, you call yourself programmer. The best way to connect with others is to understand how they perceive things and find ways to relate to t…

This so obvious I'm amazed that it isn't discussed every time this topic comes up. Programmers seem to think that there is something "dirty" about adjusting your language according to audience.

> Programmers seem to think that there is something "dirty" about adjusting your language according to audience.

Yes. I am struggling with this right now, myself. I mean, not specifically that, but this general idea that putting effort into social bullshit that has little to do with my actual competence is dirty. It really /does/ feel dirty, and I have a difficult time articulating why.

The problem is that I have moved myself more towards management, and so getting people to do what I want really is part of 'competence' now.

A big part of this is that humility (false or not) is so absolutely core to getting along with other engineers, and so absolutely terrible when dealing with business types; behavior I have put a lot of effort into training out of myself now needs to come to the fore.

I don't know. One track is to view social nonverbal communication as ethically neutral, but eh, that... might have other problems, too. As this is an active problem for me, I clearly don't have the correct solution.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#74

Post by nilkn » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 1:12 AM UTC

zachrose wrote: post #71

nilkn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is an engineer then? A lot of my friends are desk engineers at chemical companies. Not a single one is putting anything together at all with their hands, and most aren't figuring out how other people will put stuff together with their hands either. It's an almost entirely intellectual endeavor. In fact, at some places like Exxon, some chemical engineers are also internally known as economic analysts beca…

Putting things together with your hands is what mechanics do.

Cool, so what is an engineer?

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#75

Post by vinceguidry » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 1:19 AM UTC

Glyptodon wrote: post #19

nawitus wrote: post #12

I thought the general advice is to call yourself a software engineer.

I hate the trend of calling people who code 'engineers.' It's just not a good title for anything to do with software. And invariably people who embrace its usage seem to be trying to compensate or ignorant of what a real engineer actually does or is.

One of my first bosses in IT used to do steel work on large buildings. He was classically trained as an engineer. He didn't have any trouble calling computer work engineering. Considered the disciplines very similar as far as skills used. But he did have a lot to say about the legions of keyboard monkeys who couldn't find their way out of a vi instance.

Just because most people who work on computers aren't engineers doesn't make the field not engineering. Just means that most of the people that do it are incompetent at their jobs.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#76

Post by UK-AL » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 1:29 AM UTC

nbouscal wrote: post #48

UK-AL wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its also sad when some bright up and comer ends working for lots of little small companies, on a tiny wage when they could be earning a seriously better life working for a large company.

"earning a seriously better life" is one of the saddest phrases I've heard. You don't earn a good life, you make it.

Of course you can. For a lot people the good life is a nice family, nice holidays, not being stressed. For that you require money. Otherwise you might end up in a tiny apartment, eating cheap food, feeling quite stressed.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#77

Post by bgilroy26 » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 2:01 AM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #18

alxbrun wrote: post #5

I was having a beer in this small Brazilian town, mid-afternoon. Two girls come to my table. We try to chat ; they can't speak any foreign language and my Portuguese is awful. - Me: What is your job ? - The girls: Programma - Me (for the next 30 minutes): Oh great, me too ! Which languages ? Even "Java" didn't seem to mean anything to them. Strange. I assumed they had special programming languages in Brazil. 10 years…

That's pretty funny. In case anyone's wondering, the full term is "garota de programa", literally "girl of program" or "program girl". Obviously, the English is "call girl". Normally, "programa" just means events, like "what's the program for the evening?". Here, of course, you can figure it out yourself.

>Normally, "programa" just means events, like "what's the program for the evening?".

This also sounds like "escort" in english. it seems to be implied that an escort would escort you somewhere. But not necessarily.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#78

Post by nbouscal » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 2:24 AM UTC

UK-AL wrote: post #76

nbouscal wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"earning a seriously better life" is one of the saddest phrases I've heard. You don't earn a good life, you make it.

Of course you can. For a lot people the good life is a nice family, nice holidays, not being stressed. For that you require money. Otherwise you might end up in a tiny apartment, eating cheap food, feeling quite stressed.

No. Having a nice family, nice holidays, and not being stressed do not require money. Furthermore, your counterexample of a tiny apartment and cheap food don't actually contrast your definition of the good life. You can have a nice family, nice holidays, and not be stressed while living in a tiny apartment and eating cheap food. A lot of people do so every day, all around the world.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#79

Post by cpursley » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 3:16 AM UTC

alxbrun wrote: post #20

fixxer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if I'm laughing more at the confusion on your part, or the likely confusion on their part after you told them you were a programma too. Hilarious.

Up to this day I'm still wondering if the girls thought that "Java" was a very special service I was requesting.

Oh man, that's very funny.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#80

Post by btilly » Sat, Jul 13, 2013, 3:26 AM UTC

johnrob wrote: post #22

I don't agree with the point about later stage options: But what this misses is that you don't get paid in percentage points - you get dollars. A $100 share going up 20% to $120 means you make $20 per share. A $5 share going up 100% to $15 means you only make $10 per share. If you join a larger company, the shares will be more expensive but you will own less of them. Percentage growth is definitely the way to measure…

The percentage that matters varies depending on the stage of the company.

For a non-public company, you have to pay the strike price, and you get stock with a particular estimated value. But you have no easy way to convert that stock into money. This is worthwhile or not depending on the ratio between price and strike price, and depending on whether the eventual price matches the current estimate.

But if the company goes public, then the equation changes entirely. Now you can take out a short term loan for stock, buy at the strike price, sell at the market price, pay off the loan, and pocket the difference. Now you really should think of it as profit/option * # of options.

The longer that you intend to stay, the better your odds are that the second way of thinking about it is right, and the more valuable your options are likely to wind up being for you.