Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

defcon.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 260 posts

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#251

Post by [deleted] »

dragonwriter wrote: post #238
msandford wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The political landscape would have to be so incredibly different for social security to go away I can't even really comprehend it. >I have no problem with that description, but that's an argument against any assertion you might make about what would be likely in that case, not an argument for it. You're basically arguing that the status quo is, and always will be, the predominant way of the world working unless a…

> You're basically arguing that the status quo is, and always will be, the predominant way of the world working unless a person can provide direct evidence to the contrary in a big way. No, I am arguing that arguments of the form "if X occurs, its likely that Y will also occur" need to be justified by more than "X would take a radically different world, and Y occuring would be conceivably plausible in such a radicall…

[deleted]

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#252

Post by msandford »

dragonwriter wrote: post #238
msandford wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The political landscape would have to be so incredibly different for social security to go away I can't even really comprehend it. >I have no problem with that description, but that's an argument against any assertion you might make about what would be likely in that case, not an argument for it. You're basically arguing that the status quo is, and always will be, the predominant way of the world working unless a…

> You're basically arguing that the status quo is, and always will be, the predominant way of the world working unless a person can provide direct evidence to the contrary in a big way. No, I am arguing that arguments of the form "if X occurs, its likely that Y will also occur" need to be justified by more than "X would take a radically different world, and Y occuring would be conceivably plausible in such a radicall…

You haven't convinced me that I'm made some highly incorrect giant leap of faith in logic, and I clearly haven't convinced you that my ideas aren't outlandish. Thanks anyhow, though. It's taught me to be more specific in my arguments.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#253

Post by foobarbazqux »

flyinRyan wrote: post #248
foobarbazqux wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem with protesting the work people do. I just have a problem with locking them out of the protest.

No one is locking them out of protesting in general. Just our protest.

Well, it seems we have incompatible ethics. Either you violate mine or I violate yours.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#254

Post by etherael »

mpyne wrote: post #246
etherael wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for all I know every single penny of my tax money could have gone to provide food for the needy and beds for the homeless and it's just your taxes that are going toward funding guns and NSA. It's a collective pool to which you contribute which is used for both purposes, you bear some responsibility for both actions by extension. > since one could willingly contribute to only those aspects of government which are co…

> No matter how many times the state violates that trust, you do not acquire that option, your option is the same as it was to begin with, serve or die. You do have options though. Go somewhere that has no state, convince the people to disestablish the state (oh, and somehow prevent them from re-establishing one), or go somewhere that has a state that you would be willing to serve.

If you're actually serious the best part about this response is that you honestly consider it a mitigation.

Hey if you don't like your gang just join another one. Or convince all the other gangsters to quit the gang and all people everywhere to never start a gang again. But don't think for a minute you can stop following orders from the Don.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#255

Post by mcot2 »

certific wrote: post #186
mcot2 wrote: post #114

DefCon is a joke. Nobody with any skill takes that conference seriously. This is a complete farce as one of the key speakers last year was Gen Keith Alexander. NSA was fairly open about recruiting directly from DefCon and DefCon leadership had no problem with it. Anyone with even a slight security background could have predicted Prism and other programs just by the AT&T whistleblower from the mid 2000's. DefCon is ju…

Which conferences do you consider decent for someone with skills?

There are a lot of smaller technical trainings and conferences once you get to a certain level. I like to rate conferences by the technical quality of what is being presented. Am I constantly being blown away by new ideas? What can I use in my own projects to make them better?

At too many defcons I have seen nonsense panel discussions and presentations by people with little qualifications. Some presentations I have seen have obviously been created one or two nights beforehand. I've even seen a troll presentation where slides with walls of text were read word for word in a monotone voice.

I have no idea who this person is or how old this list is and I have not attended every one of these conferences but you might take a look at this:

http://faculty.cs.tamu.edu/guofei/sec_conf_stat.htm

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#256

Post by Myrmornis »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #236
Myrmornis wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any chance you could stop asking silly questions? The employees choose freely to apply for work there was (very obviously) what I meant.

It may be what you meant, but it wasn't what I read. Anyway, fine. If I apply to companies A and B, where A is ethical and B is unethical, but only B offers me a job, which I accept, have I freely chosen my employer? Let's assume these are the only companies available.

Yes you freely applied to work for a company you believed to be unethical. But if there are only two companies available to work for and one is unethical you should probably move elsewhere. Just to be clear, my statement was aimed at educated people in countries with some choice of employment. It wasn't intended as an arch right-wing statement. If poverty or political circumstances remove your freedom to choose then that would invalidate what I said.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#257

Post by mpyne »

etherael wrote: post #254
mpyne wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No matter how many times the state violates that trust, you do not acquire that option, your option is the same as it was to begin with, serve or die. You do have options though. Go somewhere that has no state, convince the people to disestablish the state (oh, and somehow prevent them from re-establishing one), or go somewhere that has a state that you would be willing to serve.

If you're actually serious the best part about this response is that you honestly consider it a mitigation. Hey if you don't like your gang just join another one. Or convince all the other gangsters to quit the gang and all people everywhere to never start a gang again. But don't think for a minute you can stop following orders from the Don.

You can always refuse to do what the Don says... just don't be surprised at what the Don does after he finds that he has no use for you.

I wish I could tell you the world was different, but it's not. We live in a real world, not an utopia. No matter where you go there will be some variant of the 'despot with a stick', whether they call themselves guv'nah or not.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#258

Post by etherael »

mpyne wrote: post #257
etherael wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're actually serious the best part about this response is that you honestly consider it a mitigation. Hey if you don't like your gang just join another one. Or convince all the other gangsters to quit the gang and all people everywhere to never start a gang again. But don't think for a minute you can stop following orders from the Don.

You can always refuse to do what the Don says... just don't be surprised at what the Don does after he finds that he has no use for you. I wish I could tell you the world was different, but it's not. We live in a real world, not an utopia. No matter where you go there will be some variant of the 'despot with a stick', whether they call themselves guv'nah or not.

I can respect that, acknowledging that they all are just a pack of murdering thugs at the end of the day and it's not some system for the service of the people was my entire point. I will not be a slave, I don't care what that costs me, it's already made me give up ever having roots and a family so if it gets worse I'll accept that before compromising my principles.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#259

Post by moocowduckquack »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #216
moocowduckquack wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they are partly for helping you choose your employer. Job interviews are 2 sided and I personally take the attitude that any employer who thinks otherwise has failed the interview process and is therefore ineligible for the position of employing me.

I like your choice of metasyntactic variables.

I bet you say that to all the boys.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#260

Post by mentat »

david_shaw wrote: post #49

This is going to be my tenth (?!) year at DEF CON. The culture of DEF CON, and especially its evolution, is a very interesting one. When I first attended DEF CON, it was a bunch of seemingly scary hackers. Fortunately, it turns out most of them were amazing people. As the conference grew (and changed venues several times), the culture began to evolve. The barrier to entry--in terms of being "accepted" into the subcul…

I've been attending for generally the same time frame. It seems a bit ironic as it was made known to me that the majority of the organizers are feds now. Are they all staying away too?
Post reply on HN