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Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

yosefk.com

41–50 of 123 posts

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#41
post #15

The business terms are "cost center" and "profit center". If you do IT for a financial firm, you are a cost to be controlled. If you do product development at a software company, your work contributes directly to profits and the more of you there are, the more profit they make. I can add that aside from software, consulting also treats programmers as profit makers although clients will see you as a huge cost. Good co…

In a former life, projects were paid for either from 'expense' or 'capital expenditure' buckets. Investors like expenses to be low as possible, but capital expenditure is investment in the future. Managers were always trying to creatively finagle projects in whichever bucket had some available money.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#42
post #5

I was having a beer in this small Brazilian town, mid-afternoon. Two girls come to my table. We try to chat ; they can't speak any foreign language and my Portuguese is awful. - Me: What is your job ? - The girls: Programma - Me (for the next 30 minutes): Oh great, me too ! Which languages ? Even "Java" didn't seem to mean anything to them. Strange. I assumed they had special programming languages in Brazil. 10 years…

That's pretty funny. In case anyone's wondering, the full term is "garota de programa", literally "girl of program" or "program girl". Obviously, the English is "call girl". Normally, "programa" just means events, like "what's the program for the evening?". Here, of course, you can figure it out yourself.

> Obviously, the English is "call girl".

So, this conversation could have happened in America, with the title switched to "call-center associate"?

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#43
post #12

I thought the general advice is to call yourself a software engineer.

Not in Canada. It's illegal here to call yourself an 'engineer' unless you're a licensed engineer. It's a protected term, like 'doctor'. So unless you studied Software Engineering, which there are many schools that teach it, and hold a P.Eng, then you can't use the term.

That's technically true in many US states as well, but I've never heard of it being enforced outside of the fields where many practitioners are licensed (mostly Civil Engineering, to a much lesser extent Electrical and Mechanical Engineering).

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#45
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the trend of calling people who code 'engineers.' It's just not a good title for anything to do with software. And invariably people who embrace its usage seem to be trying to compensate or ignorant of what a real engineer actually does or is.

Are you also critical of calling 'electrical designers' engineers? The degree I'm studying for is an engineering degree.

How many classes did you take with other engineering students that other STEM majors (say, chemists) did not also take?

My CS program was "in" the engineering school but after freshman year the required curriculums diverged greatly. Sure, we both took Physics III and whatnot, but so did all of the other decidedly not engineer STEM students. Even the required/suggested math classes diverged after Calc II (with engineers skipping Calc III and taking IV instead, and most CS students taking III but not IV.

We didn't even take the same ethics courses. CS took computer ethics while other engineers took engineering ethics.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#46

You should call yourself whatever based on the situation. If you are hanging out with a group of consultants, you call yourself consultant; if you are a special effects programmer, and talking to a model, you say you're in the movie business; if you are interviewing with the author, you call yourself programmer. The best way to connect with others is to understand how they perceive things and find ways to relate to t…

This is one of the most useful bits of wisdom I've read on this site over the years. Thanks for this. (or in other words: "This.")

[deleted]

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#47
post #32

There's a major point in this article that not many commenters seem to be picking up on: there's a fork in the road of careers. To one side is a multilane highway over fairly level ground leading straigh to predictable suburbia. To the other side is an uneven dirt path leading through mountains and countryside to parts unknown and has many forks of its own. Neither path is right for everyone. And hardly anyone needs…

The highway also gets you places where you can't feasibly get by the dirt path. Yosef is right that you can't really do chip architecture, tool design etc. in a two-person company. (Chuck Moore doesn't count.)

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#48
post #35
post #32

There's a major point in this article that not many commenters seem to be picking up on: there's a fork in the road of careers. To one side is a multilane highway over fairly level ground leading straigh to predictable suburbia. To the other side is an uneven dirt path leading through mountains and countryside to parts unknown and has many forks of its own. Neither path is right for everyone. And hardly anyone needs…

Its also sad when some bright up and comer ends working for lots of little small companies, on a tiny wage when they could be earning a seriously better life working for a large company.

"earning a seriously better life" is one of the saddest phrases I've heard. You don't earn a good life, you make it.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#49
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in Canada. It's illegal here to call yourself an 'engineer' unless you're a licensed engineer. It's a protected term, like 'doctor'. So unless you studied Software Engineering, which there are many schools that teach it, and hold a P.Eng, then you can't use the term.

That's technically true in many US states as well, but I've never heard of it being enforced outside of the fields where many practitioners are licensed (mostly Civil Engineering, to a much lesser extent Electrical and Mechanical Engineering).

My previous internship title was Software Engineer but my title was changed to "Software Designer" because someone is enforcing it.

Re: Do call yourself a programmer, and other career advice

#50
post #4

A few comments: 1. To me, however, a programmer is who I'm looking for, while a resume full of revenue increases and cost reductions sounds like an "anomalously high-cost parasite who types some mumbo-jumbo into Excel and PowerPoint, claiming credit for others' work". This is in no small part because you are a programmer. The vast majority of people who pay other people for work that involves programming are not prog…

My replies to your points:

1. Do you have stats? In absolute terms, a whole lot of people hiring programmers have programmed themselves. How do you know the other people hiring programmers are "the vast majority"? (I sincerely wonder about it. I cited two numbers by two bloggers, one says it's 80% of the cases, the other says 90%. I have no idea, but I intuitively feel it's less than 50%. Are there real stats?)

2. I mentioned Ron Garret because I replied to an article mentioning him and Google as a proof of something that this example actually disproves, not because I thought it's a good example to generalize from.

3. I agree, which is why I said that people overvalue early option grants (hoping for the value to rise tenfold which it probably won't); I added to that an explanation why late option grants past the point where value can possibly rise tenfold are undervalued (because the money you make is the difference in prices, which rises with the absolute value of the stock price even if the growth rate goes down.)

I said near the end that I'm not sure I'm reading the original article as intended so you could say I misrepresent it; what I am pretty sure of is that a whole lot of people read it very closely to the way I'm reading it in my reply, and I'm writing for those people.

Your "biggest takeaway" is exactly what I'd like the takeaway to be; all I'm saying is that SaaS/freelancing career is not the only path to succeed in "programming", and that there are other paths you might want to take and you'd behave differently if you took them.

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